Backstab - Shouldn't stack

[Gwain]

Yeah, I'm going to say here that backstab as it is should not be changed for player characters at all except for the following:

- Mobile thieves should not have access to backstabbing to the same degree as Pc thieves

I don't think heal and cure spells should remove backstab affects because they can be accessed to readily and dispelling magic at least comes at a cost to boons and other spells affecting the victim.

I don't see the urgency in weakening the skill simply because it could affect you or has affected you dramatically, rather keep it in the hands of actual players and not on autonomous programs like mobiles.

Thieves are weak, need lots of backup and grouping to be any sort of threat for an extended period, why neuter the class further if all they require is proper management?

[Zorinar]

The effect comes from the Crippling strike feat. It should not be reduced as it is meant to be long lasting, however, it does not make sense that every single NPC thief mob has that feat. I like Gwain's Idea of removing that feat from the NPC mobs, or at least mix them up, some with arterial strike, and others with crippling strike.

[Ungtar]

I agree. This is something that should be in the hands of player thieves but not so much in the hands of spamming mobiles.

[Yemin]

The duration has always baffled me though. Whats the point in it being so long?
Not looking to start a debate, just never understood the purpose behind it.

[Ami]

Gwain has the right of it. I've also had the experience of being backstabbed down to immobility by npc thieves, and it's not challenigng- It's infuriating. Having the duration set to last as long as it does serves no purpose other than to burden PC's for a very painful amount of time. All I could do was recall back to Silverymoon and sit there for an hour or more while the effect went away, twiddling my thumbs.

PC thieves should certainly maintain the ability to cripple an enemy for an extend period of time, but NPC's should have the duration cut, if nothing else, for the quality of life of the players affected.

[Hrosskell]

double post! feel free to delete.

[Hrosskell]

Apart from initiative and circle stab. Rogues on here also get it whenever the opponents blinded / stunned. which happens alot... take a cleric/wizard with you/ dirtkick/gouge.

This is how sneak attacks are supposed to work. The circle stab skill is currently a mitigator to their potential that I think is entirely unnecessary, and in some cases, crippling. Sneak attack should be one skill that triggers as per the rules in D&D:

The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm#sneakAttack

Plain and simple, the goal of the rogue--and anyone working with one--is to get that rogue sneak attacks. It's their combat trick, and what makes them useful in a fight. Always rescue the rogue, lads.

[Svenrick]

I find myself in agreement with Gwain, dolifer, and Ungtar.

If you're stuck in a single area for over an hour then its a mechanic that needs balance or tweaking at least for the PvE side of things.

Due to PvP being much less common than its PvE counterpart I could see leaving it in so that Player Characters can simulate the flanking mechanics, but perhaps have some way to mitigate the effects because many of us don't have the time to sit around stranded in a single place for over a real-life hour due to these effects and the only thing you could roleplay is being in severe misery for about an entire day's time and that shtick would run dry within the first five to ten minutes.

Perhaps an item (bandages were mentioned) that can only be used outside of combat so that it cannot be abused during the fight.

[Svenrick]

I find myself in agreement with Gwain, dolifer, and Ungtar.

If you're stuck in a single area for over an hour then its a mechanic that needs balance or tweaking at least for the PvE side of things.

Due to PvP being much less common than its PvE counterpart I could see leaving it in so that Player Characters can simulate the flanking mechanics, but perhaps have some way to mitigate the effects because many of us don't have the time to sit around stranded in a single place for over a real-life hour due to these effects and the only thing you could roleplay is being in severe misery for about an entire day's time and that shtick would run dry within the first five to ten minutes.

Perhaps an item (bandages were mentioned) that can only be used outside of combat so that it cannot be abused during the fight.