Layonhands & Turn Undead Bug Update

[Andreas]

I think I've discovered something new with my layonhands and turn undead bug. I logged out earlier today with full charges of all my paladin abilities. When I logged in several hours later, I was down one charge each of layonhands and turn undead. I haven't used any paladin abilities at all in the past 24 hours.

[Larethiel]

Can confirm that, this keeps happening since ages, so to speak. Charges of these skills will disappear without having been used.

[Harroghty]

Okay. So I did some digging around and have found the following issues. Please, current paladins, confirm or dispute their currency.

• They were to eventually use the invoke command also. (post from Bug Reporting, see also Staff Discussion if able)
• Some, not all, paladins lose charges on logout. It seems to be only older PCs that have this problem. (post from Resolved Bugs) - same with this post
• They fail too often. (post from Game Suggestions)

I would like to define the problem completely from the end user level and then we can figure out what to fix and how.

[Alitar]

I lose charges on logout. Specifically, if I have full charges, logging out drops them by one. Lay on Hands specifically does this for sure, I think curecure disease might not.
Not having failure issues anymore, but smite has a cool down where if you smite too soon after already smiting it wastes the second charge but does not work. Also, if your target walks out before smite resolves, charge is lost without effect. Lastly, if your stamina is too low to use smite, it still costs a charge but does nothing. Smite could also stand to be more effective, maybe have it not replace the attack action, but that is conjecture.

[Andreas]

Layonhands and turn undead do not use the invoke command. Cure disease does use the invoke command but I don't lose charges of cure disease when I log out and log back in. It's not even a matter of mistargeting layonhands or turn undead. I'm not using these abilities at all and I'm losing charges of them when I log out and log back in.

I think my issue may be related to stats. I believe I get a bonus layonhands and turn undead due to my stats (I could be wrong) and I'm somehow losing a charge of each when I log off and log back in again. None of my other paladin abilities are affected by logging out and back in.

[Alitar]

Layonhands and turn undead do not use the invoke command. Cure disease does use the invoke command but I don't lose charges of cure disease when I log out and log back in. It's not even a matter of mistargeting layonhands or turn undead. I'm not using these abilities at all and I'm losing charges of them when I log out and log back in.

I think my issue may be related to stats. I believe I get a bonus layonhands and turn undead due to my stats (I could be wrong) and I'm somehow losing a charge of each when I log off and log back in again. None of my other paladin abilities are affected by logging out and back in.

It's both for me. Charges expended wierdly and losing charges on logging.

[Larethiel]

Same for me as with Alitar.

[Raona]

Hi hi!

I've had my eyes on one aspect of this for some time, and I'd love to use the collective experience here to confirm I have it right.

The number of uses for Turn Undead and Layonhands that a paladin gets is based on their CHA bonus. Turn Undead is 3 + CHA bonus, Layonhands is just the CHA bonus. If your base CHA bonus is lower than your CHA bonus with some boon, you will lose the excess ability use on logout. I believe this impacts a number of older class abilities (those not triggered by INVOKE), like sing for bards and turn undead for priests.

Specific example of Raona:
Raona's base CHA is 16 (+3 CHA bonus), but her equipment raises it to 18 (+4 CHA bonus). (Her CHA shows on the score sheet as 18/16.) After a long time logged in without using either ability, she shows
layonhands 4/4
turn undead 7/7
However, if she logs out and then back in, she sees
layonhands 3/4
turn undead 6/7
instead. Waiting long enough without using these abilities brings them up to 4/4 and 7/7 again, with a delay corresponding with the normal recharge time for each (1/7th of a day for turn undead, 1/4th of a day for layonhands, I think).

Could you please confirm this analysis is consistent with what you are seeing on your PCs - and if you are not a paladin, confirm any new guilds for which it applies?

Thanks everyone!

[Gwain]

I can confirm that as a priest with a high cha that I don't have this problem.

[Andreas]

I think what Raona described is what is happening to Andreas.

His base CHA is 16 but gear raises it to 19.

[Raona]

I can confirm that as a priest with a high cha that I don't have this problem.

Does Gwain's CHA bonus change as a result of a piece of equipment you normally wear, though? That's when this applies; if your CHA is naturally high and not booned, you should not be impacted.

Thanks for the reply, Sir Andreas.