Fury and Forest Fires

[Kinal]

Hey guys, wanted to know if anyone had any resources concerning this, or could shed any light:

While knowing that Talos and Malar are not only allies, but they are part of the Gods of Fury, I have always struggled to fully comprehend their relationship.

It's always been my understanding that Malar's end game is to have the savage wilderness dominate the world, and therefore holds the wilderness sacred. While Talos' end game is ultimately destruction of everything (at least The Circle of the Rust and Worm), or if not everything, at least destruction.

While some of their tenants are the same, why are these two allies not enemies?

[Woror]

Talos was close with Auril, had a flirtatious rivalry with Umberlee and a grudging alliance with Malar, who would kill him if he could. He also hated deities that promoted building, learning, nature, and the altering of weather. Chief among his enemies were Chauntea, Eldath, Lathander, Mystra, Sune, Deneir, Gond, Helm, Mielikki, Oghma, Shiallia, Silvanus, and Tyr.

Particularly among evil deities "ally" doesn't mean friend.

[Harroghty]

Yes, I would agree that the alliance is more politics than agreement.

This is common across the spectrum. e.g. Tom and Helm

[Gwain]

I think they'd be hunting buddies?

[Tyeslan]

They would kill each other if they could, but Malar serves Talos, as Talos isn't just destruction, but the Storm Lord, and the dark side of nature. Malar is a god of bloodlust. He doesn't follow nature like Mielikki, or Chauntea, and in fact hates goodly druids, and balance. He goes for wanton destruction through hunt, and blood

"Malar (MAH-larr) is the god of the savage wild. Along with Umberlee and Auril, he is one of the Gods of Fury who revel in the kill or who hunt for sport or to excess, fallen rangers, sentient carnivores, and lycanthropes. Those who suffer the depredations of wild beasts attempt to placate the Beastlord with offerings of freshly killed and bloody meat, but Malar rarely recognizes their entreaties. In his more favorable aspects he is revered by beings who identify with the untamed nature, grace, and amorality of predators."

It's all to do with nature, and the untamed elements. That's how they all work together. Fires can still cause the destruction of animals, and blood to run too.

[Terageld]

This is common across the spectrum. e.g. Tom and Helm

A minute and forty seconds well spent. I regret nothing!

[Orban]

Yes, I would agree that the alliance is more politics than agreement.

This is common across the spectrum. e.g. Tom and Helm

It's always been my impression that while for various reasons their Churches have been at odds and had rivalries, Helm and Torm are genuinely close, not just politically aligned. There's stuff in F&A and F&P about their 'kinship' going back centuries, and Torm being the only deity who can truly understand Helm's rigid commitment to his duties, etc.

I believe Faiths & Pantheons also mentions that's its the strong bond between them that has forced their Churches to finally start smoothing things over.

[Harroghty]

The above typo is great evidence of one of the chief joys of consulting: lots of time spent in airports on mobile devices as you dash from plane to plane.

Orban, I was not clear enough in my meaning. Torm and Helm have "always been allies" (according to Faiths & Avatars) because Torm is, after all, the god of obedience in the Realms. While they are both described as devoted to their duty, Helm is described as emotionless and heartless while Torm's "heart is filled first and foremost with goodness." Helm demands unquestioning obedience, but Torm punished his followers for the same thing when it resulted in evil. Therefore while they understand one another in a general sense, they disagree in the particulars.

The same kind of relationship seemed to make sense from what I knew of Talos and Malar, but Faiths & Avatars explains that "Talos and Malar only grudgingly work together, and Malar would happily kill Talos if he only had the power to do so."

[Gwain]

Its widespread in the pantheon. For example, when Cyric came into his godhood, he immediately earned the animosity of several deities because the portfolios he know controlled were in direct conflict with their own. Others have animosity from events in their existence. Helm dislikes Lathander because Lathander indirectly killed his paramour, Clangeddin hates Enoreth because they fought in the Time of Troubles, Shaundakul hates Beshaba because she torments and misleads his followers. I find that deities generally share positive relationships based on mutual portfolios, romances and mutual enemies.

[Telk]

To address your specific questions about Malar and Talos: The Dogmas between Talos and Malar aren't really at odds with each other, as they both embody chaotic nature. Talos is the leader of the Gods of Fury, so Malar is subordinate to Talos but doesn't exactly like him.

This old thread from back in 2003 has a ton of really good information and might help clear up the confusion about the specific relationship between Malar and Talos, and the Gods of Fury:

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=571