Below lvl10 Recall

[Beskytter]

The below level 10 recall doesn't work while in combat, which I'm beginning to wonder if it should. It's very frustrating with your character doesn't have the stamina to flee and is about to be slaughtered, you can't recall, you're on the other side of the world from where your starting position is, and you're not able to call for aid because you lose your amulet.

Is it possible for us make it work while in combat so that it can be used in emergencies like it's supposed to? Right now, the only way to use it is when you're not fighting... which suggests that only when you need to travel all the way back but don't want to walk, which we all frown on.

[Yemin]

I used to flee then use it. Don't know where your fighting since i've only ever made Waterdeep ish newbies but you can run from one room almost anywhere in waterdeep to another with only like 5% stamina.

I don't have strong feelings either way but I felt doing it like that taught you how to flee better since after lvl 10 you'll have to flee then properly run the heck out of the zone.

commands in order:
speed run
flee..... gt*o

[dolifer]

There have definitely been times I've wished using this recall during combat were possible -- especially on those chars who end up a twenty- or thirty-minute walk away from the zone without gear upon death -- but I feel like this would make chars under tenth level nearly unkillable, which isn't really good, either.

I also agree with Yemin that it kind of helps newer players get used to how fleeing has to work. As I'm sure we all know too well, that does take some practice to get it down right, and flee and recall is kind of the first step in that direction.

I would vote for keeping it as is myself.

[Beskytter]

The problem that I've found is, a lot of the time you're not in Waterdeep when you die. I got lucky today that someone was accidentally ran into almost immediately afterwards, but it's not a common occurrence when you start somewhere other than Waterdeep.

Under level 10, you usually don't have the stamina necessary to flee while outside a city. As it is, each time combat begins it drains a little stamina so your stamina drops each time you attempt to flee which drains it quickly since the game ticks in a way that causes most monsters to get into the room with you before your next command activates. Setting your speed to run, fleeing, and recalling all take valuable stamina to pull off and that's where the problem lies. On the roads or in the wilds, if a new player is out there and being slaughtered there's a frustration that the one safety net set up for them isn't really there /while/ the thing that it's set up for is happening to them.

If recall is supposed to save us from being killed, but the thing that's killing us stops us from recalling, how does it actually help us from being killed?

[Yemin]

What are you fighting out in the wilds under level 10?
I'll be honest and say I'm usually a very cautious player so my first few characters never left the city before level 10. I can see your argument is a fair one though now I'm wondering if the game should encourage players to really be leaving the starting area before level 10. I don't know about the others, but apart from Mithral hall's current but soon tob e fixed money problem, I feel that starting areas should have enough concent to keep someone occupied until then at the very least.

[Beskytter]

Bandits, the bane of low level curiosity cats who like to explore the world map. As well, this particular character was looking for slightly better armor and some trainers for things. At low level, when two or three bandits group up against you it's basically a moment of: "Whelp, there goes all that walking and hard earned coin cause it's going to be strewn across the road forever now."

Now, if our safety net worked as a safety net in these situations, new players might learn that the big bad world is dangerous enough to just stick with the content available in and around their starting place. It just makes more sense based on the ooc warning of it's not supposed to replace walking. Yet, the only time you can use it is when you're essentially walking.

[Yemin]

Considering the game is said to be a harsh learning curve even if you know dnd quite well recall during combat might be a goo dfix.

I can't help that troll oldschool player spirit though that's whispering that handing out more information on how lethal the stamina drain can be and giving a more detailed description of what fleeing is like would be a better help at the risk of flooding newbies with even more information.

I'm on the fence with this one.

[Beskytter]

It honestly isn't a matter of giving them information or warning them how dangerous the game world can be. It comes down to the fact that they're told the recall command is in place to help protect them from extremely deadly situations and/or when they're in serious desperate need and yet the times they find themselves in that moment of panic they can't use the one thing they were told to use.

We're falsely advertising an incredibly important safety net for brand new players. I'm not all too much upset at the prospect of losing some stuff. It's stuff, the game is full of stuff, I'll replace this stuff in the near future when I've earned more stuff that I need to get said new stuff. So stuff isn't important to me, but new players aren't me and don't exactly know how to replace something that may have taken them hours or even days to eventually gather together.

What is important is that I've been in the shoes of some of the new players I see coming to the mud and can honestly say how frustrating it is to see all my hard work go to waste the /one/ time I try to venture out on my own. We're told, yeah it's dangerous out there so don't do stuff alone at low level but oh yeah we've got this cool feature for low level characters in case you do venture out and get into serious trouble... only, you can't use it when you're actually in that serious trouble, so bummer bro. Good luck tho!

My point is, can we stop having the potential for such a frustrating moment at the immediate beginning of the game for potential new players by making the thing we made for them work the way we imply it works? We can hindsightedly tell them to do this or that next time, but why not stop there from being a first time... in the first place?

[Gwain]

I think you could recall out of combat at one time but it was removed because of abuse. Anyway recalling out of those situations usually results in mobiles hunting you unless you're fighting a fair distance away.

[Yemin]

It honestly isn't a matter of giving them information or warning them how dangerous the game world can be. It comes down to the fact that they're told the recall command is in place to help protect them from extremely deadly situations and/or when they're in serious desperate need and yet the times they find themselves in that moment of panic they can't use the one thing they were told to use.

We're falsely advertising an incredibly important safety net for brand new players. I'm not all too much upset at the prospect of losing some stuff. It's stuff, the game is full of stuff, I'll replace this stuff in the near future when I've earned more stuff that I need to get said new stuff. So stuff isn't important to me, but new players aren't me and don't exactly know how to replace something that may have taken them hours or even days to eventually gather together.

What is important is that I've been in the shoes of some of the new players I see coming to the mud and can honestly say how frustrating it is to see all my hard work go to waste the /one/ time I try to venture out on my own. We're told, yeah it's dangerous out there so don't do stuff alone at low level but oh yeah we've got this cool feature for low level characters in case you do venture out and get into serious trouble... only, you can't use it when you're actually in that serious trouble, so bummer bro. Good luck tho!

My point is, can we stop having the potential for such a frustrating moment at the immediate beginning of the game for potential new players by making the thing we made for them work the way we imply it works? We can hindsightedly tell them to do this or that next time, but why not stop there from being a first time... in the first place?

I'm not sure what happened to the mobiles hunting you. I remember that umberhulks and goblins from friendly arm used to have absolutely no problem hunting you across the world map it was pretty hilarious.

You make a fair point though. The help file is misleading. It will be edited pending approval.

[Harroghty]

I am not sure that we're selling someone a false impression because, as it has been pointed out, recall is not really even discussed. I, for one, was not even aware of that as a new player.

[Thaelyn]

As a new player of around level 9, I have explored the world up to Luskan and Longsaddle. I didnt even have knowledge of Recall and yes the stamina drain is a big one. I have died twice to groups of bandits on the road and needed assistance in gathering the corpse. And when using flee, it never seemed to help but maybe I wasnt at a running pace.

[Yemin]

So, to clarify, might the route problem here be with how we teach newbies how to flee to get to safety in the game?

bandits are dangerous below level 10, but I feel at level 10 and above all classes except wizard have a fair chance of taking them one on one.

As for large groups of them, I think it comes down to looking where your going and walking around them.

So, I guess my suggestion is to advise new players not to leave their starting city before they hit level 10. Or not to leave until their comfortable fighting the stronger NPCs in the seperate training areas Either OOC in the newbie training area, or ICly through some other means.

A coded challenge to engage a gibberling and run from it down several rooms without getting caught by it might be useful / fun as well.

Stamina drain on the world map is already cautioned about in help stamina. But might have a need to prod newbies to read it somewhere in the newbie training process as FK's method of movement around the realms is fairly unique in my experience.

Where the use of recall is concerned, the help file does
say, *about to be killed* I can see how this can cause false assumptions about it. And since making it work in combat due to previous abuse is more or less off the table. We might look at making recall a fix for getting lost only.

[Thaelyn]

I can take on bandits without a problem one on one, but it always seems to be four or five of them. I have now learnt to always look toward rooms before entering. Same as in the Neverwinter Wood, it seemed as I was battling a Stirge, three boars joined the fight and went downhill from there. And when at night while using a glowing object or torch, using the flee command wasn't able to find the exits to allow my escape.

[Yemin]

The latter there needs a fix / looking at in my opinion. You should be able to flee into dark rooms.

[Thaelyn]

Ah, that would make sense. I kept getting the message 'You cannot spot an exit!' or the like. But caution has set in and lessons have been learnt, I'll take a look at the helpfile for recall and see how it can help.

[Vaemar]

I checked with my halfling and one can flee in dark rooms. Probably what happened to Thaelyn was connected to a strange setup of exits or access to that room he happened to be in. Unless the room was meant to be a trap I would report the location.

Here my testlog with flee into dark rooms.

n
The sewage management system
N-The sewage mana S-Darkness
Filled with large, inter-connecting iron pipes, this chamber seems to serve
as a hub for channelling the city's sewage. Canals and leats are carved in
and about the floor, with bridges to provide a safe - or at least dry way
across. A small stone building has been built against one wall, though it
is devoid of life or signs of habitation.
A tiny fanged bat glares malevolently from the gloom.
A large, chitinous beetle crawls through the filth.
An enormous, mutated rat squats in the gloom.
An enormous, mutated rat approaches you and prepares to engage you in combat!

<100%hp 50m 57%mv>
You step back out of the range of an enormous, mutated rat's jaws.

<100%hp 50m 57%mv>
Your crush beats an enormous, mutated rat to a bloody pulp.
an enormous, mutated rat has a few small cuts.

<100%hp 50m 56%mv>
flee
You prepare to flee ...

<100%hp 50m 56%mv>
You step back out of the range of an enormous, mutated rat's jaws.

<100%hp 50m 56%mv>
A gradually sloping passage
N-The sewage mana S-Darkness
A dark-walled stone passageway, largely remarkable for the most part,
descends gradually from north to south - into the gloom of the sewer network
below. The sounds of scurrying and chittering beasts can be clearly heard
from the shadows about you.
You flee from combat!

<100%hp 50m 55%mv>
An enormous, mutated rat walks in from the north.
An enormous, mutated rat lunges at you from out of nowhere!

<100%hp 50m 55%mv>
You score a critical hit!
Your crush beats an enormous, mutated rat to a bloody pulp.
an enormous, mutated rat is bleeding freely.