Rogues' woes: we need help

[Aunala]

1) I think that there should be an option in combat mode for the rogue, that allows the party to see a hiding rogue that is in group with them. (give them +100 to see in-party rogues hiding)

-This allows rogues to communicate using thieves cant while hidden, with each other. It allows the party to know if the rogue is keeping up with them, as well. Realistically, the party should know where their rogue is, they are watching him hide.

2) More Magical light armor needs to be added for rogues.

3) Poison weapon should have a variety of effects, meaning different kinds of poisons that affect different stats.

4) Riposte Needs to be fixed and actually start working.

5) The balance of GM spot vs GM hide should be fixed.

6) The reflex save needs to be fixed.

7) If we are going by 3.5, sneak attack should be hitting every attack in the round, not just once a round. (But that will seriously mess with balance.)

More traps!

9) More Locked Doors!

10) Climb should actually work, as it is now with my Adept climb I still need a fly potion for almost everything that I need climb for.

I think 10 is good for now.

Thanks!

1) Never knew I needed this so much. This would be a huge and very intrinsic pillar to rogues in a party. Opens up tons of lines for RP and 'dialogue'. I don't know how difficult this concept is to translate it into code, however. I would love to see it available. --- Also, why does the 'tongues' spell grant its target to understand thieves cant? Always thought that was odd.

2) I've, too, noticed a bit of disparity in this respect. I have seen and have been rewarded with many pieces of enchanted half/full plate and chain mail that outshine the lighter and medium armors. Not a huge deal, it just makes the market for them that much more in demand.

3) I haven't experimented much on this, but I get the impression that there are different poisons in the game already that drop from different mobs. I could be completely wrong on this, too.

4) No idea on the status of riposte, but I wouldn't rank it high on, objectively speaking, the rogue's list of 'fix me please'. It would be considered the PC's attack of opportunity for that round, correct? Does the target suffer anything if the riposte is successful?

5) I'm still in the dark on what the numerical relationship of spot/listen are to hide/sneak. Besides that, is it possible to have items that give you skill levels on hide/sneak put you above the GM rank as we see?

6) Agreed. The number is wrong - half(6) of what it should(12) be by all accounts. This should be at the top of the list, no contest.

7) That would be more in line with 3.5, but would totally skew the balance - like you said. I propose that the surprise round should result in all your attacks being sneak attacks/backstabs. Only for melee, though. Ranged backstabs behave well enough as is - coming from a ranged specialized PC.

More traps. Simple and I like what it would do. Send a buffed/invis cleric or a more suitable thief to scout. Not necessarily more deadly traps. This would be welcomed.

9) I've encountered quite a few doors that are pick-proof. I like this because it adds a need for a fighter's doorbash or a wizard's knock. I would like a bit more to be added, and if it already is implemented just ignore this, but a command to test if the door/gate/chest is stuck, locked, barred or arcane locked. I guess it could be done simply through elimination..

10) There are items in-game that makes sense in an IC fashion that aid with climbing. I don't see this to be an issue.

I wish I had more points to add to yours, but I guess I'll just critique your ideas. Three points that really stuck out to me:
1) A PC needs the option to grant her party vision of her if she's hidden. Thieves cant would be relevant. This would be such a great functioning toggle to have.
6) Reflex save needs corrected.
7) Surprise round should yield sneak attacks for all attacks rolled and hit. Beyond that, don't screw with the balance.

[Liri]

I'd also agree with all of the above points, as they'd add a ton to the class. Another thing that I would like to bring up would be the possibility of a config +/- crippling strike like there is for arterial strike. It makes friendly spars a bit painful for about a day afterwards.

[Zorinar]

As for climb, my rogue has climbing gear and he still fails almost every climb he does. There is something wrong with the mechanics.

[Ungtar]

As for climb, my rogue has climbing gear and he still fails almost every climb he does. There is something wrong with the mechanics.

I'm looking at the settings for exits and rooms in the builder helpfiles right now. I don't see a setting for the difficulty of the climb, only flags that control whether a climb check is called or not.

If so then it looks to me like the climb check works about like the language skill checks ... grandmaster or nothing.

[Yemin]

I've noticed a difference in skill levels in language though.

As for magical armour... what pieces are you missing? I've seen every position of magical light armor there is before and I don't even play a rogue. I've even come across weapons that give sneak bonuses... their out there.

[Isaldur]

Wet blanket time!

Discussion should be more about why it's worth making new code or changing old code. What will it net FK? If bards get Bardic Music will there be more bards played regularly? The regular bards that played through the worst of the class and continue to play their bards will probably keep doing so, even without exact match to tabletop.

Then after it's debated and discussed on why it's worthwhile to do this other than to make the classes more resemble tabletop...

How do we rogues, bards, and thieves prove that worth?

How do we make it INTERESTING for volunteer coders on staff so it will be something fun/entertaining/etc to do? Could be as simple as enough people expressing genuine interest, or as difficult as needing 20 bards to write about how amazing Mask is just to show that the interest is there.

Basically, how does the return on investment factor for all this?

[Maetha]

Wet blanket time!

Discussion should be more about why it's worth making new code or changing old code. What will it net FK? If bards get Bardic Music will there be more bards played regularly? The regular bards that played through the worst of the class and continue to play their bards will probably keep doing so, even without exact match to tabletop.

Then after it's debated and discussed on why it's worthwhile to do this other than to make the classes more resemble tabletop...

How do we rogues, bards, and thieves prove that worth?

How do we make it INTERESTING for volunteer coders on staff so it will be something fun/entertaining/etc to do? Could be as simple as enough people expressing genuine interest, or as difficult as needing 20 bards to write about how amazing Mask is just to show that the interest is there.

Basically, how does the return on investment factor for all this?

Frankly, I don't see the coders working on this unless there's a giant public outcry, they have other things to be doing for now. Suggesting other alternatives is all we can do at this point until the workload lessens to where requests and ideas can be more implemented.

Personally, I think new feats might help the most- since Thieves don't have many feats, and Bards don't have a large amount themselves. Things like Deadly Aim, Dervish Dance, and the like could be steps towards giving Rogues more presence beyond their skills and Sneak Attack/Circle Attack.

[Vaemar]

Having a bard now I can confirm that the only class that needs fixing of the reflex save is the thief. They should have by level 50 a +12 reflex save like bards and rangers do.

[Aticus]

Oh, gods, yes, please!

[Vibius]

Yes!

Thieves have wrongly all bad saves, they should have them like unguilded rogues, only good reflex saves.