Some Newbie Area Help

[Rhytania]

It's either presented in a forgettable way or the player isn't directed strongly enough towards that resource.

This is why an online crib sheet or player guide on the website should be there. that way when a new player gets stuck they go to the website and bam its right there. nothing new really has to be created just copy the few commands that might be helpful from the help file combine it in one page (i.e. newplayerguide.html) and have the start area point to that page. no new code, no new helpfiles, or even tutorials just a plain simple New Player Guide page.

I would love to talk to have an imm if possible, and run all new accounts in the past 6 months then run the amount of hours played, the average character level(for all chars associated with the account) and see just where we lose people. If the average is level 15 with 30 hours played in 6 months then ok we have a try before you buy situation. However if the average character level is 10 or less with 1 - 5 hours played, we may have a newbie retention/starter area problem. If they stuck around for more then an hour (under an hour we can consider that a drive by connection) then there is no reason we should have lost them except for frustration or disenfranchisement with the starter area.

[Vaemar]

My impression is that FK does have a retention problem.

I can talk basing myself only on anedoctal evidence, but I have heard repeatedly, and verified myself that there are newcomers to the game who get already frustrated in the tutorial. And if they get past the tutorial they then get frustrated when they are thrown into Waterdeep.

For example the first thing a newbie should receive at the Dripping Dagger should to be pointed to this file: http://www.forgottenkingdoms.org/maps/heleynwd.jpg

Because with that you can navigate Waterdeep at least half-decently. I am not sure that this happens often unfortunately.

I am also not sure how many people actively guide around newbies, and I speak of real newbies, in game. I recall a mud called Ateraan had a system where a newbie could ask for a tour of the town. I think that system had some problem, for instance the tour I did sucked, but in principle I find the idea intelligent. I tried to apply this on FK the other day and the feedback I received was good, even with starting from a negative experience with being frustrated already in the tutorial as well as having a totally unexpected encounter with a wandering umber hulk who almost wiped out all of us.

Also, if possible, the test that Rhytania suggests should be done on accounts rather than characters, because we have many new characters made by old players, so that could really give a false impression about the new users' retention.

[Rhytania]

i like the tour idea. Maybe allow the Player Council have a character in each starter area frozen at level 9 (kismet free) just for those situations where they may have to go in and get facetime with the player?

[Vaemar]

I think a tour is mostly needed for Waterdeep. The other starting areas are already accessible at a later stage and they are easier to tour than Waterdeep.

The Underdark may be a bit harder, but a) you don't have any true newbie there b) both Menzo and Blingdenstone, even considering the minimal population, have a much better "newbie" assistance than Waterdeep could ever dream of.

I think also that it could be better for the newbie to actually meet a real character with some minimal IC reason to help them, rather than a tutor character they will never meet again. After all there are not many reasons not to help a new character even for baddies, as shown by the drow case.

What I did the other day was taking a low-level alt I had in the area and doing the "Prath", showing the main reference marks useful to navigate Waterdeep, showing them where to learn basic skills, get basic items, showing a little bit of the setting and the flavour, the areas where to level, to meet people and to read what happens in the game-world, i.e. the noteboard.

I also don't think it is necessary to burden the Player Council with this, although they are more indicated of course; on the contrary I believe almost any player with a bit of patience and kindness can tour around newbies proficiently.

The only thing that I believe should NOT be there for the helper is any kind of reward. Essentially what I think ruined my character's tour on that mud was that the guide accepted to tour my character because they were expecting some form of reward. So they led the tour anyway even if they had to afk half of the time and had to cut the tour before it was really over. They did apologize for that, at least, but still the tour sucked nonetheless.

Personally I think that a mechanic that let's people in the Market Square be aware there is somebody needing help could be useful in this regard.

[Rhytania]

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=21492&view

And lets throw forum activation in that list.

[Lylena]

i like the tour idea. Maybe allow the Player Council have a character in each starter area frozen at level 9 (kismet free) just for those situations where they may have to go in and get facetime with the player?

I honestly love this idea.

[Andreas]

Waaaaay back in the day, Player Council members had a flag of some sort set on their accounts (characters?) that allowed us to enter the newbie area (when it was still in the Font of Knowledge and presided over by Newt). Is it possible to do this again so Player Council members can enter the newbie area and get some face time with new players?

[Bellayana]

I think Rhy has a great idea, the Player Council is supposed to be there for players that are having troubles. I know when I first started I would get discouraged, still do at times, because there are syntaxs I don't understand or look deep enough into the games programming. Having a character that could also push RP, IE be involved in some storylines and such. Anyhow, kudos to Rhy!

[Vaemar]

Not sure where to put it, but there is this on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/5 ... _kingdoms/

[Andreas]

There needs to be some discussion about how to manipulate multiple objects of the same name. I.E. 2.pack and 3.pack etc.

[Yemin]

A new player suggested to me that a sentence or two during the newbie school process about protecting your head and chest would be useful.

As of writing I can't find or remember any help files on the subject of lethal body locations such as those and the effectiveness of wearing armor vs clothes or naked in those locations.

[Andreas]

The gibberlings might need to be toned down a bit. Some non-warrior types have had difficulty getting through them and I think it's a huge frustration point for new players.

[Yemin]

I remember Haroghty mentioning he was working on seperate paths at one point?

Otherwise either they should be toned down or general advice as to how to deal with them be given. Or that mob that asks you if you want to skip asks you everytime you enter his room, not just once.

They are definitely handleable by a wizard with 10 str, because I did so with my very first char here, but there is an awkward pattern of fight and retreat that needs to be used. Or well, could update the weaker classes to start being able to handle them. That would be the best fix in the longterm.

[Vaemar]

A nice thing to add to helpfiles, considering many asks I have seen recently, would be the synthax to look in and at identical named items, I.e. "look in 2.pack/3.pack/n.pack" or "look sword/2.sword/3.sword"

I suggest it to be added to the "look" helpfile.

Also, let me state again those gibberlings are really too strong, in particular for characters who have not very high physical stats.

[Vaemar]

A little bump to remind the issue of the gibberlings in the tutorial.

In these days I am keeping my idling character there, so that I can check there is a peg often available on the floor and I can't help but notice that newbies keep getting butchered very badly by those gibberlings. Is there really nothing that can be done for it? I fear it is a far bigger problem than one might imagine.

As a side note, the gibberlings sometimes can also get stuck in rooms flagged as non-combat. If this happens to the gibberling that drops the key, the tutorial will actually become impossible to complete. This is another thing that should get adressed IMHO. The easiest way could simply be to flag the room with the water basin as no mob.

I wonder, maybe, while you are addressing the peg bug, these things can be taken care of as well.

[Areia]

Unrelated to the previous post, but because I was just reading a bit back and noticed this and the attention it got for the first time, thought I'd mention...

i like the tour idea. Maybe allow the Player Council have a character in each starter area frozen at level 9 (kismet free) just for those situations where they may have to go in and get facetime with the player?

There are still certain PC members who have access to the newbie areas on any character, so the above is, fortunately, already implemented for those times when a newbie might need a lot of face-to-face help for whatever reason. We're instructed not to abuse the privoledge, to avoid overdoing it, etc. But ya, it's there.

As for our friends the gibberlings in Waterdeep's sewers, I still say they're very doable. I did the area with a 10str/10dex/14con wizard back when the game was half running, without casting any spells and without nearly dying at all. I think it would be more helpful to have a lesson in the tutorial about how to practice "safe combat". By that I mean things like knowing if and when to flee, knowing to rest until you're restored before you fight, knowing to don armor and the like before combat (sounds obvious, but I've seen that one missed quite often), etc., etc. Rather than dumbing down the danger, as it were. I think Zak kinda sorta goes over that stuff in the tutorial, but if I recall, it's very... high level overviews and pretty easy to miss the information without actually being asked to put it to use then and there.

[Vaemar]

Way doable... for us.

A dank, stone corridor
N-A rough-hewn in S-A dank, stone c
This corridor is defined by smooth, sloping walls wearing an
array of scrapes, cuts, and gouges. The floor too wears its
own scars but they are more shallow, both worn down and full
of grime. Puddles ripple towards the center of the path fed
by condensation rolling down the cold walls.
The corpse of A moon elf lies here. (superb)
The corpse of A human lies here. (superb)
A hunchbacked little monster stands here.

In my opinion it is a costly mistake to expect from a new player, who has already many other things to learn especially in the case this is their first MUD, that they would learn to act how you say.

Sure they will need to learn it eventually, but let it perhaps happen when they have already commited to the game a bit further.

[Areia]

That's a fair point, too. Packing the tutorial with too much would likely be just as unhelpful as filling it with too little, especially for those who are looking for only a quick peek into the game before committing.

Kudos on stalking around Pugran, btw. I imagine it's making a lot of people's lives a lot easier, as many new players as I've seen popping up.

[Alinor]

What about adding a warning to one of the rooms before the gibberlings? Make it as obvious as having a permanent sign item there saying something like:

'a board is attached to the wall here with READ ME! in large red letters painted on it (LOOK WARNING)'

Then have the warning keyword say something like:

DANGER AHEAD!
Be sure to look for monsters! (help look)
Don your equipment! (help equipment, help wear)
Rest before fighting! (help rest)
Prepare spells! (help memorize, help cast)

Add anything else that may seem necessary. Something like this might be a way to give a last minute reminder. I know it's probably not the best idea but it's something that just came to mind.

[Aislynn]

In the past week, I've asked four people to try out FK.

Two rolled a Warrior and had little to no difficulty with the tutorial whatsoever.

One rolled a Cleric and had some minor difficulty (particularly with learning how magic works, and a brief talking to about how long it takes to regain spells without meditate, etc.)

One rolled a Wizard (Just last night, actually), and had extreme difficulty. Several deaths, with one resulting in a multiple hour break and nearly quitting altogether. Granted, he had 10 STR/10 DEX/12 CON?/ 16 WIS/ 16 INT/ 10 CHA, but even still, it was utter drudgery for him. I wouldn't say he's typically the most patient person ever, but he's been playing MUDs for -years-. The amount of difficulty he had was very surprising to me (he was probably human corpse you saw), but it nearly caused him to quit after several upsetting deaths.

Perhaps something could be done with caster classes to allow them to regain their spells more quickly in the tutorial? I think that might balance things out a little and allow new players to get a more 'thematic' taste of their chosen class, as well as assuage the growing pains that I saw my friend experience last night. Just a thought, I have no clue as to whether that's doable or not!