OOC Thieves' Forum Log - Dec. 1, 2002

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:08 pm

After much trial and error, I can't seem to chop this log into small enough bites for the board to swallow. So, I just uploaded it to my personal site and you can get it from there.

http://www.geocities.com/teutelquessir/thieves2.txt

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:03 pm

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed a rash of inappropriate thefts happening lately. I strongly urge all thief character players to thoroughly read the log of the Thieves' Forum that was hosted by Cyric to cover proper thief roleplay.

A few very important points covered:

1. Cleptomania (stealing anything not nailed down) is not acceptable roleplay on Forgotten Kingdoms.

2. Do NOT log off after stealing anything from a PC. You have to give them an appropriate amount of time for roleplay. Stealing and logging off right away is code abuse.

3. Stealing containers (packs, bags, etc.) from awake and alert PCs is in very bad form and generally not permitted. Even more so if they are in a crowded area such as the Market Square. Just because the code allows you to do so, does not mean it is acceptable roleplay.

4. Hiding in plain sight is also very poor roleplay. If another PC is looking at your character and holding a coversation with them, it is inappropriate to hide and sneak away without roleplaying the attempted escape. And this does NOT mean entering an emote followed immediately by the hide and sneak commands.

Give careful consideration to your character's actions. Would you want someone to do that to you? A lot of the thefts that have been happening lately have bordered on code abuse and just plain being nasty in an OOC sense to other players.

Please, play your thief characters responsibly.

Mask · Post by **Mask** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:45 am

Just to update Andreas's comments with current thinking and rulings:

1. Cleptomania (stealing anything not nailed down) is not acceptable roleplay on Forgotten Kingdoms.

It is the extremes that the rules protect against. In the same way that we do not allow psychotic serial killers, wedo not allow players to roleplay a character who does nothing but steal from other players. In both these cases it is not a single act that we have problems with but rather a chronic pattern that we need to step in to stop.

2. Do NOT log off after stealing anything from a PC. You have to give them an appropriate amount of time for roleplay. Stealing and logging off right away is code abuse.

This is not 'code abuse' (a much overused term), but anti-social. Robbing a player is considered to initiate a role-play, in the same way that starting a conversation with a player is. To log off in mid-sentence is rude; to log off after having robbed someone is more than rude.

3. Stealing containers (packs, bags, etc.) from awake and alert PCs is in very bad form and generally not permitted. Even more so if they are in a crowded area such as the Market Square. Just because the code allows you to do so, does not mean it is acceptable roleplay.

The code dealing with the theft of containers has been updated to be more realistic. You may attempt to steal containers if you wish to, by all means. Just be prepared to deal with the consequences should you fail.

4. Hiding in plain sight is also very poor roleplay. If another PC is looking at your character and holding a coversation with them, it is inappropriate to hide and sneak away without roleplaying the attempted escape. And this does NOT mean entering an emote followed immediately by the hide and sneak commands.

The 'hide' command does not simply mean that the thief has hidden behind the nearest passer by or shrubbery - it includes misdirection, melting into the crowd, distraction etc etc.

However, if someone has role-played that they have taken hold of the thief's arms and are holding them, then running away is very poor form.

Marty

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:50 am

Also on the hiding thing, if you jumped in a bush would someone be able to still see you after your in the bush? (considering its a large bush etc.) So could you RP it as such?

Elwin · Post by **Elwin** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:18 am

Not sure, but I think that would be okay. As long as there aren't too many people around. You have to take in the amount of people around when you are hiding. BUt, if you are just running from one or two people, you could rp rushing into some large bushes and hiding.

Granger · Post by **Granger** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:47 pm

I have a question as far as stealing from pets or mounts of players, What is the guidelines as far as this goes?

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:34 pm

Cyric says, OOC, 'Alright, next is stealing from PC's pets.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Pretty much, if you are in the city, expect to be caught. The horse won't act too kind to those lifting bags from it if the person isn't it's master/owner.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'So the guards might hear a ruckas and come to check it out.'

Cyric says, OOC, 'It's a risk though. Don't think this will let you keep your mounts in MS now though '

Cyric says, OOC, 'The guards have been known to pick up stray pets as well.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'MS?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'Market Square. It's my quick way of typing it.'

A young female elf says, OOC, '*nod* saw someone take a pony into temple once, when I tried to talk to them about it they mounted an road off'

Cyric says, OOC, '*nods* Should question it. We'll talk to him.'

A young female elf says, OOC, '*nod* I just sent them an otell, not seen her do it again'

Cyric says, OOC, 'In the wilds, horses can become fair game. Some thieves make a pretty good living off of stealing horses and such.'

A young female elf says, OOC, 'you can steal a pet?'

Cyric says, OOC, 'There are ways, yes.'

Sable says, OOC, 'But, I would like to point out that you have to be careful with that. If the owner is simply link dead then you are straying in to a bad area.'

Theres more, but you'll have to read it yourself... its all in the thieves log on andreas' website..

Legault · Post by **Legault** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:07 pm

I know a lot of newbie characters IRL that have started rogues in hope to become thieves. One I have heard has even been banned for breaking some of the thieving rules, So I figured I would make a post stating the stealing rules.

-After you steal, wait 30 minutes before logging off, sucessful or not.
-If you are under level 10, do NOT steal and flee to the temple.
-Be realistic when you steal, you cannot exactly snatch a large bag right out of somone's hands without them noticing.

Tempus · Post by **Tempus** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:18 pm

Legaults rules are of course his own interpretation of the guidelines which should be used by thieves.

For further information and the latest thinking on applying these guidelines, see http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... ight=steal

Legault · Post by **Legault** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:41 pm

Ah, well the ones I put are what I heard from others.

Alaudrien · Post by **Alaudrien** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:03 am

wouldn't handle animal allow a thief to keep a horse calm unless it was persay a warhorse who was trained not to like many people except its master and those he introduced to his mount? or a ranger horse perhaps? would make since. if someone is good with animals he can sweet talk em feed em an apple and then gently releave the poor creature of its burden?

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:28 am

Alaudrien wrote:wouldn't handle animal allow a thief to keep a horse calm unless it was persay a warhorse who was trained not to like many people except its master and those he introduced to his mount? or a ranger horse perhaps? would make since. if someone is good with animals he can sweet talk em feed em an apple and then gently releave the poor creature of its burden?

That's a nice thought, but not everyone respects that sort of roleplay.

Andreas's previous horse was well known for having a vicious temper. Even rangers feared to get too close to those sharp teeth and steelshod hooves. The horse he has now is his bonded paladin's mount. Technically, a bonded mount is intelligent enough to know friend from foe and know if the person approaching it should be allowed to touch it or the stuff on it.

However, the code doesn't allow for these factors, so it's up the players of thief characters to play responsibly and act within the bounds of believable roleplay. Stealing from a trained warhorse or bonded paladin's mount would most likely result in either a severely injured or dead thief.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:47 am

Is there any way to get <10 thieves out of the font after they steal? Short of divine intervention, that is?

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:10 am

We actually had a discussion about this in Rogue's Council. These are the rules we came up with. As far as I know this is a complete list.

You may not:
-Repeatedly attempt to steal from someone while disregarding failures. In other words, if you try to steal and they notice you, do not continue to attempt to steal right then and there. Unless they actively roleplay ignoring the theft attempt it's safe to assume they're watching you now.

-Log off immediately after stealing. Please allow quite a bit of time for the character who was robbed to attempt to get his or her things back. You should plan to be around for an hour or more.

-Steal something that a character is obviously paying attention to. For instance, if a character has just taken something from a pack, they are paying attention to both the pack and the object. If you RP distracting them, then stealing it is a possibility.

-Break into PC houses and steal from them. This is currently illegal in all situations due to the fact that code updates need to be made. (PC houses can be recognized in several ways. A PC shopkeeper will respond to his name with a phrase like "Thank you, but I have already been hired by someone else." A PC house generally has longer descriptions that other rooms. If you type 'crime', the game will respond, "Houses of the Kingdoms does not have a system of law enforcement!")

-Steal from someone who is link-dead, or from their pet or mount.

-Use the 'influence' skill on anything except intelligent creatures. Animals and monsters should not be affected by this skill, so please don't try to use it on them.

-Abuse the 'influence' skill by using it constantly to get items. Doing this will result in loss of the skill.

-Give an item to an NPC and then immediately steal it back. The NPC would notice this. By stealing it back immediately you are abusing the fact that the NPC can't actually pay attention to the item

-Take anything from the corpse of a PC who you did not kill.

-Take more than 2 items from the corpse of a PC you did kill.

-Sell quest items that you have stolen. Generally selling anything you've stolen is poor form, but it is especially bad to steal something needed for a quest.

-Steal from Immortals (unless they are 'switched' into a mob)

-Hide while you are talking to someone. If you are having a conversation with someone, it can be assumed that they're looking at you unless they indicate otherwise. If someone is watching you, you can't really hide from them.

You may:
-Attempt to steal from someone several times in the same hour, if you wish. If you fail the first time, it is ok to leave, then come back later (probably not just a minute or two), and attempt to steal again.

-Steal bags. The game will now make it difficult to steal heavy items, but you are welcome to try.

As I understand it, these rules will eventually be posted on the website and a link will be provided whenever someone creates a new rogue character.

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:01 pm

Balek wrote:...-Steal from Immortals (unless they are 'switched' into a mob...

Lol, in one MUD I've played an immortal was addressing a player, who got really angry and attacked the immortal. The game system didn't make immortals very powerful (except for the common slay command), before the immortal could respond and type slay he got killed

It was funny.

anyho I can see that thieves require a lot of dedication in terms of playing time, if sessions of one hour is nessessary to make one theft. Would there be any exceptions to the rule, where the thief may exit the game before this set time? (perhaps by special RP circumstances or OOC/IC consent of the one stolen from)

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:16 pm

It would seem that thieves can be divided by act into two categories:
The city thieves generally try to steal whatever they can get their hands on and go into hiding, if they have a guild, they still often act alone. Roleplay requirements for these behaviour is rather difficult. Perhaps a perfect one is following the target for a good time, allowing for suspicion, and then conducting the thievery. Stealing in a group might be more interesting.

Then there are the highway men stalkling the major roads. I'm not sure what the people think of this, that a bunch of thieves can gather in a group, usually attempting to loot clean passing travelers, and will not flee but rather chase the target away/kill him. Allowing for extensive RP throughout, of course.

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:39 am

Balek wrote:-Use the 'influence' skill on anything except intelligent creatures. Animals and monsters should not be affected by this skill, so please don't try to use it on them.

-Abuse the 'influence' skill by using it constantly to get items. Doing this will result in loss of the skill.

A bit off topic... but, It is mentioned here. Has the influence skill been turned off? The trainer is still in the game. I was just wondering

Please move this if you feel it belongs elswhere.

Fortune's smile
The Banna

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:02 am

There are as many types of thief/rogue as there are people who play them. You can not lump RP into a tiny compact little formula

But, if you play a thief.. and you refuse to read the guidelines...do not be surprised if you find yourself paying the price. IC actions have IC consequences and people get testy about losing their stuff ( as one should expect!) and plenty of folks will hunt down a thief.

My 2 copper...
The Banna

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:01 am

There was a bug that caused game to crash when influence was used.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:44 pm

Cyric,

Please re-post the steal rules into the "Announcements and Game Policies" forum as a sticky so that they are easy to find. We've had some poor stealing lately accompanied by the poorer "I didn't know that was against the rules" excuse.

OOC Thieves' Forum Log - Dec. 1, 2002

OOC Thieves' Forum Log - Dec. 1, 2002

Inappropriate Thefts

Stealing from animals

Rules for thieves.