What is bad Roleplay?

Argentia · Post by **Argentia** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:47 am

First let me say I don't want to point fingers, say names, or condemn anyone at all, I just wanted to start a constructive discussion.=)

That being said, I've noticed lately some RP that I'm not sure how to take. Lately there has been a surge of new rogues, which is fine, as character trends come and go and shape the world we play in. But should there be limitations on just how greedy and diabolical these slight-of-handers can be? Going so far as to kill other player's mounts and to lead players(Especially young newbie players!) into traps to steal their amulets of communication seems like poor role play to me. I have read the thieve's forum by Mask, and I get the impression from his statements that greed for other player's equipment is poor form. I love this MUD, it is the best there is in my opinion. I don't want to see it turned into another equipment/leveling game and I don't want new players to be scared away or turned sour to the game.

These are mearly my opinions and I wanted to ask about everyone else's? If I am the only one who sees this then I will be more than glad to be quiet. =) Also if I have stated anything that is wrong information or is considered IC info please let me know!

Exer · Post by **Exer** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:06 am

Taking advantage of new players is just plain wrong. As for mounts, stable them.

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:18 am

*mutters about orcs walking off with peoples horses*

Argentia · Post by **Argentia** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:20 pm

So mounts are fair game, then? Though I think looting it should be capped at taking two items at most, something like that. Though I still think killing another player's mount is downright malicious... But that's what evil people do I guess.

Rorix · Post by **Rorix** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:46 pm

I have always had it in my head that it is looked down upon by most for killing mounts, which are standing there doing nothing. I personally feel that killing mounts is an extreme cheap shot at someone. Rorix sees quie a few mounts around by themselves, but he would rather come up with something clever to do with the mount to get the attention of the owner, rather than to outright kill it. Where's the challenge or the fun in that? Being evil is not necessarily about hack and slash, its also about being diabolical and sinister.

lateaz

Rad Adam - the Eye of the Storm

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:53 pm

Agreed, i have had my mount moved several times mainly by a certain orc, but it is my own stupid fault for leaving it where he can get it... the RP that has come out of these situations has always been very good fun, but if I had found him standing over my horse's corpse chewing on a leg or something, even tho it would be considered IC for his char to do this I would be VERY pissed off both IC and OOC...

I think that IC actions have to be balanced with the effect that it will have OOC as well, the game has to remain fun for all parties involved...

Rorix · Post by **Rorix** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:51 pm

Zilvryn wrote:I think that IC actions have to be balanced with the effect that it will have OOC as well, the game has to remain fun for all parties involved...

Although I understand where you are coming from, I believe this should only be taken to a certain extent. I have had several times where I was mad about a situation because of unlucky events, yet I would not have changed what the other PCs involed did because it was IC and reasonable, despite me not liking it. I think this really boils down to how you take IC actions OOCly. It is going to very from person to person.

lateaz

Rad Adam - the Eye of the Storm

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:05 pm

of course, sorry, I don`t think I worded that quite correctly (reading a book and trying to post at the same time

)

I will have to relate back to my horse example again as its the only time something of one of my chars has really been at risk, but if Graf had eaten my horse, although I would have been annoyed, he would have been perfectly within his rights to do so and you have to accept that, if not like it

And again, as you said, it's an IC action so there should be no OOC problems with the player etc..

I think people just have to use a little common sense with there RP and think about the affect that the actions will have on the char in question...

Sorry if this is a little convuluted, just trying to explain my thoughts a bit and hopefully add to the discussion

Natasha · Post by **Natasha** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:21 pm

Once there are more City Watch members this will be easier to handle, too, as people that do this won't be able to hide inside of cities anymore.

Natasha

Argentia · Post by **Argentia** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:55 pm

Is it a fair rule to say, concerning PCs, don't really do anything to another PC that would infuriate you? Because to say don't do anything to another PC they wouldn't like would just be killing thief and evil classes. But personally I think the extremes are down right nasty and will make unnecessary conflict and hatred between players themselves.

Thank you for the feedback! Now I would like to ask, what is a good IC way to deal with players who commit these acts?

Aegin · Post by **Aegin** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:02 pm

Personally, I think that leaving a horse standing somewhere, and expecting someone not to steal from you is a little much.

Show me one time in the history of man where you could just walk off and leave valuables on a mount for long periods of time without them walking off.

Killing the mount? *shrug* Depends on the character. yup, it's annoying. So stable your mount.

The IMMS and Admins go through great pains to make the game as realistic as possible. Suggesting rules to the contrary kinda defeats the purpose.

Bottom line, if you don't want your stuff stolen, do what we have to do in today's society anyways. Make it harder to steal your stuff.

Argentia · Post by **Argentia** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:08 pm

Ok, ok, let me rephrase that Zilv.

What's a good way IC for LAWFUL people to deal with them? It's not like you can just talk to a guard to have it dealt with...

Aegin, yes, I know that it is very realistic. That is why I asked about people's opinions on the matter. It is realistic, but malicious, and I wanted to know how people felt about that. I don't want to undermine anything the imms have established, I merely wanted to know other people's opinions. Personally I think there are better things to do than kill horses to get a few items, but that's just me. If everyone else disagrees than I'll shut my yapper.

Also, I wanted to gear this more towards players being newbie-unfriendly. Should I tell the person, OOC, that such actions are really destructive to the MUD or do I not have the authority to do that? Should I e-mail a complaint? Question it on the MUD? Thanks again!

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:44 pm

Waterdeep is specifically made to be a newbie friendly area. If someone knows enough to be capable of getting a mount and ordering it to sit in Ardeep or plains around WD they know enough to know they are abandoning the mount/pet. If you bump into someone you know is a "newbie" and not a "lowbie" out of Waterdeep, you are yes expected to not just kill them. You are not however expected to sacrifice the manner of your character because you walk into a newbie on the road. If one can handle wandering into the Keep or Westgate where evils do congregate, I would assume they can handle the roleplay. A newbie is someone who does not know the mechanics of the game. I think everyone has sense in their mind on how to handle roleplay situations. By everyone I mean players who are considered older should "know better" and players newer should be capable of seeing the person they aer running into is not exactly the nicest person ever. Remeber that no PK situation cannot happen without roleplay. No one can walk up to a newbie and thump them.

How should a lawful person handle an evil, or someone killing their mount, or stealing from them? "Lawful" is not a big rubber stamp that says, you must do BLAH! Lawful means you follow laws. How you choose to follow laws is each individual persons choice. There is no single way to handle any situation, nor a certain series of ways each alignment should.

As for killing mounts, I cannot agree with Aegin more. Stable your mounts and pets or leave them out for the roleplay. My evil is a habitual pet mover. I've moved pets up to 100 rooms. And on the same hand, my Druidess leaves her pet and mount unstabled in the forest.

For thieves if you are worried about items, keep them out of your inventory. It's very easy to do so. However, items are replacable. I have never seen the logic in people stressing so badly over whats happening to their things. This is a roleplay mud, and if someone steals from you, it's annoying, yes, but it is also roleplay. Isn't that what we're all here for?

I do not believe this is a case of "bad roleplay" but perhaps "bad characters". In an IC sense, bad people. Our world is full of all different kinds of people. FK should definately be the same way.

In my opinion there is no such thing as "bad" roleplay. :) There are things that happen that lack roleplay that are frustrating. But if a situation haves roleplay, that is why we play FK. :)

~Danica

Argentia · Post by **Argentia** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:53 pm

Thanks Mele, I think that was just the kind of answer I was looking for. =) Although I wasn't really refering to moving pets... Yes that's frustrating but that's exactly what the evil person meant it to be.

But still, if we see newbie unfriendly activity, how should we deal with it?

Tychina · Post by **Tychina** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:02 am

If I leave my horse somewhere unsafe, even for a moment, and an evily comes along and kills it, that is my problem. I do not expect them to not rp their evil characters in a way not befitting that characters nature, just because I was too lazy, or in too much of a hurry to stable my horse. Bad rp on the evily? No, would be bad rp for ME though, to have left the poor beast unatended long enough for it to happen. But, thats just MY chaarcter.

What I DO see as bad rp, is killing someones mount, then when they catch you in the act, running off and logging offline before they can have a chance to chase you down.

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:30 am

Personally I want to meet the guy who is only brave enough to kill a mount and not face the man that mount belongs to. What do you get out of killing a mount? Really please tell me, because I must not be a very good evil pc because I have never killed a mount, nor do I see the point. I just see it as someone not willing to rp thieving from another pc so they take the easy mark. They kill a horse which I bet can be killed quite easily besides the fact that they run away. I see it as sneeking out of an rp situation taking all of a persons hard earned items and running away with out ever having to put a single bit of effort into the situation, no thought just key strokes. That is the worst played, most unimaginitive evil pc I have ever heard of. Just the fact of an evil doing this makes me ashamed of being an evil myself. It is giving us all a bad name. Grow some courage and start rping your evils with the big boys.

Exer · Post by **Exer** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:01 am

If you have a chaotic alignment person, especially a chaotic neutral person, it would be in okay rp to kill a horse and not care. No need to get all huffy about it, just take better care of your pets! It's that simple.

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:15 pm

Yeh, I think generally the best idea is just to stable your horse

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:50 pm

Alright, IMHO I cannot see an evil person walking around and coming upon a horse out in the wild and them say to themselves "Hey look a horse, I guess I better kill it," No matter how evil they are, that is just not something that I would see a well played character do. Moving mounts on the other hand....that is good, because it puts the other character in the situation that they think their mount has been killed and all their things stolen. When in truth their mount is alive and well, but they have no way of knowing that. Now I believe that would cause more grief on that person than knowing that their mount was slain. I just do not see the point of someone walking in and killing a mount just because it is there.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:45 pm

I think we've gotten stuck on the mounts part of the topic, when there was more that Angentia was talking about. There was also the example of leading a newbie/lowbie into a dangerous situation, and letting them die, and then swiping stuff off of their bodies...

IMO this is not a legitimate PKill, there is no accompanying RP, and I'd dare say, no RP even considered for the recovery of the looted piece. So it is a shallow attempt to turn an ilegitimate PKill into an apparent accident, for the purpose of corpse looting.

Last I checked, the help loot file hasn't changed, and it says specifically "do NOT loot a corpse for your own purposes." Yet it interests me that there still seems to be a surprizing upsurge of late in the number of amulets of communication that turn up in the stores upon casual shopping. And newbie/lowbie corpses missing them.

What is bad Roleplay?

What is bad Roleplay?

Not so evil .. evils