Lowbies and equipment

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:21 am

Maybe it's just me who is a little perplexed, but it seems there is an increasing occurence lately of lowbies and newbie chars walking around with what I would consider power items.

I am seeing characters within a week or two out of the font walking around with everything from Yuan-ti armour to +4 weapons. I even saw a char fresh out of the font, with a quest weapon in his hand, still in all plain armour, just out of the font that day. I enquired IC, and basically, it had been given to him as a "gift."

Now, I'm not one to frown at generosity to lowbies and newbies, but IMO, there's a difference between IC generosity, and something that just flat out OOC unbalances a young character.

Lowbies are supposed to be lowbies. Low level areas are meant to be a challenge, a necessity to party up with other lowbies to establish new friendships (That's what it was for me, back last June when I first found FK, and even later, when Rozor became my 2nd alt) Stick a bunch of magic in the hands of lowbie adventurers, and suddenly you have thrown the balance way off from where I imagine the game admins and area designers intended.

Furthermore, giving and/or underselling cool quest items to lowbies cheapens the worth of the items for those who actually earned the equipment they carry. If such magic is being carried by adventurers who have not even proven their mettle, what is the point of the prize then, after you risk your own life against high level monsters, only to get the treasure and end up getting something you already bought for 15 plat thirty levels ago? Or when you see a veteran adventurer, wearing their magical trinkets they have earned through game years of adventures, and glance over to see a 16-year old carrying some of the same things. It actually can get to the point of looking comical in extremes.

To be honest, I can't even fathom a good IC reason to bestow such items to young characters, any more than I could see an IC justification for handing a fistful of 100 plat over to a newbie.... There is such a thing as IC charity, and I would not discourage such, but handing out magic to a new character, that you IC do not know from Adam, or have only known for a few game weeks, or less?

Elenthis · Post by **Elenthis** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:45 pm

I'm pretty sure this post was covered elsewhere, or at least mostly, and there are a few things I want to say on the subject. First, I generally agree. A noob walking around with a bunch of high-level equipment is probably a bad thing, and a poor choice on the part of the characters who feel so comfortable to dole it out. However, I also believe that there are instances where it can be appropriate for a newbie to have a high-level piece equipment (though more than one is beyond me) if there -is- a good enough role-play reason. Also, one item is rarely game-balancing. I understand fully what you are saying, and I am often discuraged myself when I spend a month on one quest only to see that "little bobby" just got it for 5 plat, but when that happens I usually think that they are only cheating themselves. In some cases they are, and in some, they have researched thier character, and the person who gave it to them has done the same. Well....I dont actually know 100% where I'm heading with this, just basically "I agree" but "Assumptions are bad". So...the end.

~Elenthis.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:07 pm

It has been stated many times, that what you do with your quest items, is your business. I personally have handed brand new Font characters I didn't know items or eq because I thought their rp is good. Giving them a start. Lowbies who come out of the newbie temple who want to follow Selune or Loviatar, I like to help out a lot.

-Lowbie- does not equate to -newbie-. I had a character who was level nine with 400 hours. She had a ton of rp and was indeed GIFTED items that I've never even seen able to retrieve in the game anymore.

I have also been on both sides of a character being created that has rp tied to a character in game already. Granted there was no big important gifts swapped, but it would be IC for one to help the other on arriving to the new city.

A magical weapon in plain armour is not going to make a lowbie capable of razing Hartsvale.

There's no rule against giving your quest items away, nor is there a rule against twinking. It's very well known doing so is greatly frowned upon. You can't stop people from doing it, there's really no way.

Don't get me wrong. Seeing a fully plated 2 hour warrior bugs me, too. But if someone is going to twink, then they're going to twink. It does come with consequences, but it can't really be stopped.

Danica

Talamar · Post by **Talamar** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:31 pm

I agree with Mele on this one, but did want to add something as well.

You mentioned that it's not IC to be giving out magical items to people just because, but I wanted to explain that for some people it is.

Mystran's specifically are expected to spread magic, and the joy of it's use throughtout the realms. So I don't think it wrong at all, to give out magical items and weapons, scrolls, potions, wands or whatever if the mood strikes me. I know I personally look at RP before doing so, but somtimes I just hand a scroll to a passerby without even asking their name. It's a faith thing, that doesn't have anything to do really with others' rp, but more with mine.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:49 pm

Mele wrote:-Lowbie- does not equate to -newbie-. I had a character who was level nine with 400 hours. She had a ton of rp and was indeed GIFTED items that I've never even seen able to retrieve in the game anymore.

And an admirable RP that is.... arguably deserving of a reward. That also is a rare exception rather than the rule as far as level advancement among the lowbies goes. Sadly seems a growing number of chars don't want to RP a coming of age, which should be a rich RP experience in those levels 10 thru 30-something, but rather want to embark upon their adventuring career becoming an instant veteran.... but I digress.

I have also been on both sides of a character being created that has rp tied to a character in game already. Granted there was no big important gifts swapped, but it would be IC for one to help the other on arriving to the new city.

Yes, I can see an IC motivation for taking care of your own. Blood is thicker and all

but also, requiring of a special app, and therefore an exception to the majority of newbies.

There's no rule against giving your quest items away, nor is there a rule against twinking. It's very well known doing so is greatly frowned upon. You can't stop people from doing it, there's really no way.

No, there is no "rule" against twinking, but the text in "help twink" kindly asks those who insist on doing it to take their business elsewhere.

I didn't imagine there was a way to stop people, I posted to get other players' opinion and stimulate thought on the topic.

Argentia · Post by **Argentia** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:00 pm

I have seen many newbies/lowbies alike come and go, and have helped as many as I can. I have a personal policy of not giving magical items to lowbies, because it could be seen as a "waste" of a magical item. Before this comes across as cold, allow me to explain.

First off, as has been stated here, those magical items were hard earned or expensive.(Someone perhaps sold their hard-earned quest item at Bradigans, ect., which is perfectly fine and their choice) Second, I have seen so many lowbies never come back. They start up, but for one reason or another decide not to continue with that character. That being said, I do not think it is wise to give such a hard-earned item to someone who may not return with it and make use of it. A purely OOC view.

ICly, I always try my best to help out lowbies. But I like to do so with mundane items. It took me literally hundreds of hours before I was fortunate enough to aquire my first magical weapon, but I still got by without it. And heck, I still wear mostly mundane armour.(But that is just my personal RP - not only is wearing your magical quest items great it's coooool

)

To sum up, helping lowbies is great... But IMHO everyone should experience lowbie mundaness to a degree. It helps players realize the importance of grouping and playing together rather than trying to always get the best equipment. But I do realize that there will be experienced, responsible players who, should they see fit, bestow magical items on the fortunate few lowbies that deserve it. Of course there will also be those who give out such items without similiar discretion, but that is not the focus of my post.

Beshaba · Post by **Beshaba** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:05 pm

I need to note first that this is my opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinons of the game owners or the rest of the staff.

First to Kregor, there may not be a rule that says "Don't be a twink." but a lot of policies and changes in how the game has been experianced has been done to prevent twinking.

I will confess that I do not object to the random handing out of stuff. I have been known to do it in many cases with my PCs, I think it helps to make people feel welcomed and perhaps that the game is a really cool place to be because people are nice.

It starts to become a problem when people walk in to the Square and ask for weapons and equipment, with little to no RP with the people they are asking. I saw this personally this weekend when a PC obviously new out of the temple directly asked someone who was a complete stranger for coin and equipment.

It also starts to be a problem when the ramdon handing out of stuff is being with OOC friends with no IC RP to back it up. Or when they hand over stuff to someone through an OOC agreement when there is no IC justification behind it. Or anytime when OOC friendships/relationships cause a PC to react without IC justification.

I don't think you can put a blanket statement that it should not be done. For example, paladins are limited in the amount of magic items they may own. It is considered very bad form for them to simply sell it, the understanding is that it should be donated to someone who has need of it. Why, in this case, would a paladin give an item to someone who most likely has a pile of stuff? Wouldn't it be better if they gave it to someone who honestly had a need for it?

If I have an item that I do not need, why should I keep it? Why should I sell it when I already have all the coin I need? Why should I give it to someone who already has ninety magic items? Would it not be better for it to go to someone who actually needs it? Or who will actually appreciate it?

Twyrnea · Post by **Twyrnea** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:33 pm

I think this is a topic where a lot of players might disagree...I think everyone who has stated their opinion here is a little bit right.

I think that in the end, if you've spent a lot of time on the MUD and your rp and adventuring is well-balanced, you end up having a very well-rounded and experienced character, and the reward of earning your own powerful magical items is something you should be proud of.

I've seen lowbies with magical items and nice armor, and usually wonder how they got them. Sometimes I'm not exactly...happy by what I see from them, especially when there seems to be a lack of RP. But this isn't always the case, and it's probably not always a bad thing that a new character starts off with something nice and rare. In fact, it could be quite enrichening for their own roleplay!

All in all, I think that it's really not a bad thing at all, unless this is a case of an old character wanting to stop playing, who is passing off all his stuff to some random newbie. That's just not really fair. This newbie is getting possibly a large advantage in the short run, yet he may find that it is a disadvantage in the long run. But even so, the oldbie is mostly to blame...he should know the rules, and he should know that there's NO reason to pass off eq for these reasons. And everyone should probably know enough to be suspicious of this type of behavoir...it's just not realistic to get tons of equipment and have the other character walk away practically stripped bare.

But I digress. Personally, most of my characters wouldn't give outright their valuable eq away. In the end though, it's all up to you and your particular roleplay!

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:57 am

A post where folks will likely disagree? Sure I'll add my two cents, sounds fun.

Like prior posts stated; nothing preventing someone from handing out their magics, no 'set in stone' rules about twinking (odd term i always thought), and the basic understanding, 'Hey, its your stuff. Do what you want."
Personally, I've given away stuff before with some of my characters. Heck, had an odd mage that enjoyed the hobby of giving away spellbooks long ago (water-loving oddball's enjoying the afterlife now).
I agree 100% that you should be able to do with your stuff as you wish....as long as there is rp and ic reasoning to do it. OOC arrangements/relationships reduces ic rp, which is what FK was made for anyways. "If you're not here to rp, why are you here?" as the saying goes.
Pretty much repeating what others have said, but still enjoyed saying it.
Enjoy,

N.R.