Bank limits and fees

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:08 am

I mentioned merchant's guild, perhaps that could be expanded
An upper class, perhaps, which is attainable by anyone who RPed to attain him or her impressive wealth, and thus has access to better storage of said wealth.

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:16 am

All I am going to say in response to Isolrem is this........ My mount caries more plat that than. Why you may ask? because it won't all fit into my account. When you have been here some time you will realize that hording 1000 plat isn't that rare or hard to do. I don't mean to be hard but 100 plat is nothing, it is a drop of water compared to an ocean. And Crunk is correct a dwelling at its minimum is two rooms. It's 500 plat per room. So to get the smallest dwelling you can get costs 1000 plat with nothing extra. That right there maxes out your bank account. Next I love the idea of lock boxes. I don't know if we can do that code wise but then again I am not a coder.

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:42 pm

i stick to my second suggestion

nothing wrong with having a mount carry money...

Crunk · Post by **Crunk** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:54 am

a) how practical is that and b) mounts can 1) drop stuff and 2) get killed. THink of having 240 000 dollars and you just got married. What are you going to do? Walk around with a butt full of money? Or, would you put it into the bank and then pay your bills and such knowing your money is safe (curtesy of the FDIC and all that)

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:10 am

there is an anchient concept known as bartering and trading. the value of coin is in the value of the materials used in the making of the coin and the country or power behind it. Therefore power is in the wealth of the item.
So instead of holding a four thousand platnium simply transfer a percentage of it into items Like breast plates, jewelry, weapons and such trade coin for expensive items that will gain a return. Now you would ask, well, what about the area economies not giving back the same coin when you try to sell? well simply buy from them to generate economy or travel to far spaces to sel stuffs or trade with characters. Items can carry a value of coin and though in our real world of convience banking and hundreds of different world currencies this would seems laughable or tiresome it is something to think about. In the world of Fr and Fk there is trade and barter and items hold coin values and personal value more than coin, use that as a tool of banking and convert coin to items
Ie. a breastplate worth 200 platnium, ten swords worth 10 platnium each and so on.

Or if you feel this is too difficult to master you could always give unwanted coin to money holders. Find a honest character and hire them to hold your coin and pay them a monthly rate. Or even...find a character run house and owner and offer them a steady monthly rate to hold your coin.

Ideas are like coins they roll around alot until they land on their side and become a full circle.

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:22 am

go gwain

but no one seems to want to discuss my second discussion. If we had a lower class, middle class, upper class, nobility and stuff like that (which needs to be RPed) we can adjust the bank balance.

Tretch · Post by **Tretch** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:43 am

If you ask me, Gwains ideas are a bit far fetched. They all seem fine at first glance, but as the economies go on FK.....

Going far off places isnt really needed for a char at the bank limit point most of the time. That is half the reason they have so much coin in the first place.

A breastplate worth 200 plat? Find me a breastplate worth 200 plat that you can BUY..... and if you can, how much does it sell for? EXACTLY. Then toss in the fact that anything over like 20 plat HALF the world can't afford to buy

There is all sorts or problems with that. How many of these breastplates you fitting into packs? You have 84 packs on you to carry the equivalent of 300 plat?

What if you char is evil? finding a lot of honest chars. is a bit tougher.

Basically, converting coins to items will lose you about 75% most of the time. Not worth much considering the time put in.

Tretch once carried around helmets instead of money. Your exact idea. What happened? After a code change noone would buy the helmets and they were worthless. Now there is a sound investment.....

We are talking overall here. Overall, it needs to be fixed. The items idea can only barely work in some particular cases......tops.

The locker system was asked about eons ago...... dwellings are the answer to that. You will not see lockers. That is the answer I got about 8 months ago

Mounts can carry 9000 plat. It happens. I am not largely for either way.

Exer · Post by **Exer** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:30 am

Well, please don't start hording items. This will cause a lot of shop owners giving you the "Sorry this item is currently our of stock at this time"

Not to mention an item you buy for 200 plat will be sold for 150 or so. And thus a loss in you investment.

Best bet and the simplest, just use your mount to save up the coin and be careful

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:52 am

It's always fun to see an idea shot down.

Area economies were started in order to disperse characters that would sell all their things in one place for optimum coin. In real life foreign markets meant that trade was widely distributed over vast spaces.
I used the breast plate as an example. I am sure a creative character will find something else of good value to convert his coin into if he chooses to do so. Even though you might lose some money in the long run you will keep the majority. Buying and selling is a tricky business rewarding and a learning experience. The main objective is to protect your investment enough to still have an investiment. As for how many things you carry, I'll leave that up to the character. carts are an option as are storing things on mounts. It applies to how creative you are and how well you can keep within feasable bounds. Moreso this idea works for characters that have a few thousand platnium not characters carrying a tens of thousands, those good souls should donate their coins to needy countries

.
On the notion of evil I say this, Pay a man enough money and he shall walk barefoot through the nine hells... money talks, you do good with someones coin and another will trust you and you'll have more business. Bankers are neutral powerbrokers so to speak. In essence Money Lenders and holders will either accecpt your coin or face losing your business. Or be seen as partial to one type of person.

In regards to helmets and risks. Sometimes things happen to you icly and life goes on, it's very doubtful that something bought from a respectable merchant will suddenly be completely devalued and as such their business relies on your success.

On a final note. I suggested this idea out of a perspective to players not as a code change. It relies on rp and the understanding that coin is not everything. That coin can be applied to rp and not treated in an ooc sense as higher than anything else, but as a vialble means of trade. If my idea is far fetched then I accept that it is, but I also accept that it is an idea that could work if approached with an open perspective and merit. No one forces you to see things my way. It's just another option.

Crunk · Post by **Crunk** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:04 pm

I hope Gwain doesn't take this as me shooting down his idea, but... I'm sitting here examining fifty platinum coins. Togeather they weigh a meer seven pounds. Now, I'll weigh a shining breastplate - 17 pounds and will most likely fetch me nothing over fourty platinum. I think one of the greatest concerns is the weight of coin in masses. A great deal of coin weighs a great weight and proportionately the weight of coin to items to sale value isn't sensical. I'm not saying eq should be lighter or that anything as far as values go should be changed. But, as I said in the big post, removing the cap or offering money holders (mobs) for a fee are two most easy and ideal options.

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:53 pm

yes, an idea shot down is always better than an idea ignored
*winks*
anywhoo, people keep talking about items that goes on sale for less, what's the point of wealth? If you have money or items, both material wealth, why sell the items again? Aside from the people saving for dwellings (which cost 500 plats, enough to be stored in the bank, as I understand) why not just own an item equal to the money spent, and be happy? Personally I'd rather collect items than platinums.

As for weight, there are really expensive items out there, jewelry and such like. True you'll probably never find anyone to buy them back, but from my point of view you don't need to.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:02 pm

Crunk wrote:a) how practical is that and b) mounts can 1) drop stuff and 2) get killed. THink of having 240 000 dollars and you just got married. What are you going to do? Walk around with a butt full of money? Or, would you put it into the bank and then pay your bills and such knowing your money is safe (curtesy of the FDIC and all that)

Who said that there should be a 100% sure way to store your money?

Try and replace the OOC way of thought based on what would be convenient with an IC way of thought based on what would be realistic. Gwain's idea is one possibility, it has the merit to be IC (even though it would, as pointed out above, make merchants out of stock).

Think about it from the banker's point of view. There aren't any big financial organisms where bankers can use the money they were given in order to create benefits. We could organise a loan system, but I don't think it would be used that much (nor do I think that it would be realistic for a medieval society).

On the other hand, the money that the banker is given creates a risk for him: he's supposed to guarantee that it will be safe. And that means hiring guards for his banks, escorts for his caravans, building thicker walls, buying safes, paying for magical wards, and so on. Unlike what happens nowadays (if you bring money to the bank, you expect the amount to increase with interests), the amount of money you would give a banker should instead be reduced to pay for the protection costs.

Perhaps that's another way to help people who have too much money to carry? If what the amount of money their bank account contains slowly decreases, they will be able to put more money into the bank to get back to 1000 platinum?

More seriously, except when you are gathering money for a dwelling, why would you need more than 1000 platinum?

Elwin · Post by **Elwin** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:22 pm

You really wouldn't need more than 1000 unless buying a dwelling. I have 2 characters, 1 who is trying to save for a home, and the other not. The one trying to save has had a couple bad things happen where he lost the coin that was on his mount, which was about 2/3 of it. So, he pretty much had to start from scratch. Now my other character has no need for any more coin, he donates most of it to his church. The only time he uses a lot of it is when he buys some potions. Oh well, not really saying anything, other than you do not need 1000 plat really unless you are saving for a dwelling.

Taerom · Post by **Taerom** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:36 am

I must ask a question [which I'm about to answer]. Why do banks exist? Because the owners can profit from running them. The more money the bank has, the more profit it can generate. So, from a logical IC standpoint, the banks would expand their vaults to carry more coin if needed.

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:23 pm

if you like that idea then money WILL decrease when put in the bank...

also a possibility actually. Anything over the present barrier of 1000 can be stored in banks, but will deplete after a long period of time. Say 100 game years to deplete 1000 platinums.

Crunk · Post by **Crunk** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:20 pm

Why would the amount deplete? We arn't reenacting the depression....

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:38 am

Crunk wrote:Why would the amount deplete? We arn't reenacting the depression....

Because, as Dalvyn tried to explain, this is not modern banking we are talking about.

In modern economics, banks make their profit by loaning and investing the money, when you make a deposit, your cash does not sit in the bank. Basically, you are depositing your cash in exchange for an IOU the bank issues you so that they can loan your cash to someone else at interest, or so they can buy stock with it.

FK is not set in a modern economy. Ancient moneychangers basically protected your money, kept it secure, changed it into various denominations or coinage, and guaranteed you would still have it when you went to withdraw it. This was done at *your* expense.

In this business model, there would be no incentive to grow the storage coffers, or increase the amount of coin you could store with them, unless *you* were willing to pay the price. That would basically take the form of a percentage of your balance deducted every month.

That's a totally fair expectation for a moneychager to have. What's it worth to you? Is it not worth it to guarantee the safety of your coin in exchange for a fee? Yes, your balance decreases every month, but how much quicker does it decrease if you store two grand on your mount and it gets killed and looted?

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:15 am

here, here...
Banks need money too!

Ellian · Post by **Ellian** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:09 am

I went looking for a quick history lesson and thought I'd share what I found.

http://www.ehistory.com/world/articles/ ... cfm?AID=59

Some citizens found it convenient to deposit some of their money in a bank account and receive a moderate interest (often camouflaged as an optional bonus) while using the account for receiving and making payments by written transfer in the banker's book. A reliable depositor was often allowed to overdraw his account within certain limits. The banker, in turn, was entitled to invest in his own trade the deposits of his clients. A merchant created feedback credit by charging a banker (or, another merchant) with supplying foreign exchange in a foreign place, while agreeing overtly or covertly that he would waive repayment abroad in order to receive postponed payment in the currency and place of origin.

The medieval period was actually the time that banking as we know it today first arose and flourished.

Jayson

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:53 am

I would think it arguable if societally, Faerun is in it's late middle ages. It seems much more ancient in many ways.

Any references as to how moneychanging worked in the actual FR setting? Andreas?