Teleport

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:12 pm

I like this idea, except for the relation between number of markers and spell level. It has the additional benefit that it would prevent wizards from simply teleporting into new or closed-off areas by trying off random keywords (and yes, that has already happened several times).

Make the number of markers related to the spell itself. Then, Word of recall could be defined simply as a 1-marker-teleport spell.

Spell levels breed twinks.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:25 pm

The only problem I can see with this is that teleport then loses its usefulness as a 'rescue' spell; a high level wizard isn't likely to put one of his precious markers in Howling Peaks or the sewers of some random city, but new players do get in trouble in those areas very often and if the wizard can't reach the newbie quickly they may die.

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:02 pm

what about portable portal stones? A spell component that can be activated once, and one that can only be carried one by one in inventory. Basially each one casts teleport to the degree of the magic power given into the stone, once the usage is complete the stone is empty until it is recharged, there can be several levels of recharge, each being alloted by the recharger mob based on the amount of coin spent and the arcane knowledge.

or...we can build a network of warp portals throughout the kingdoms that allow for insant travel but are guarded by manevolent forces.

or..even...better....make teleport a supplication spell or allow for it to only respond to areas that you are familliare entereded in the qlog of the pc. If one wants to go save another pc, then they need to attempt the riskier spell that will either send them to tose they seek or set them down somewhere else.

I had an idea involving a moose and a flying squirrel, but that might seem far fetched.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:49 pm

Hviti wrote:The only problem I can see with this is that teleport then loses its usefulness as a 'rescue' spell; a high level wizard isn't likely to put one of his precious markers in Howling Peaks or the sewers of some random city, but new players do get in trouble in those areas very often and if the wizard can't reach the newbie quickly they may die.

Then ...

a) the newbie is taught a lesson about grouping up instead of soloing;

b) the wizard has to choose, according to the character's priorities, whether to set a teleport stop there or not; Choice is a good thing, it defines the personality of the character;

c) wizards are not seen as ultimate saveguards against death - what risk is there, if you know that Mr Twinky-Wizard is going to pop in and rescue you no matter what risk you take?

I fail to see much negative to this change, really.

Athon · Post by **Athon** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:35 am

There's been all this talk in the past year or two about increasing the abilities of wizards and making them more useful compared to the other classes and now their most versatile spell is about to be hindered?

Teleport is one of a wizard's most versatile spells. It helps make wizards unique and fun to play. It's nice to be able to play my wizard and avoid the task of having to walk from place to place - it can be rather tedious at times (I have nothing against walking, I'm stating that it's nice to be able to avoid it once and a while) - this is the same as riding on horse.

Dalvyn said:

Choice is a good thing

but wouldn't limiting teleport hinder their choice? Sure, they will have choices in regards to the 'teleport stops' but hindering the overall effectiveness of teleport will lower their mass number of general 'choices,' thus reducing the choices they will have pending the change of the spell.

In regards to Dalvyn's response to C), there is no ultimate safeguard against death. If a character dies in the middle of a terribly-difficult dungeon, no wizard will be able to teleport in or be able to combat the monsters alone. Wizards will always get groups in this situation and I have seen this happen numerous times.

As for the abuse of teleport and/or unIC forms of teleportation, (Please forgive me for ignorance in this situation, it may be harder than I put it out to be) but I believe that teleport could be controlled better by imm-supervision. That way the problem wizards can be controlled (I've seen a huge rash of twinksome transmuters of late) and the better-rp'ing wizards are not penalized by having to have one of their favorite spells reduced. Perhaps something can be coded so that each teleport is logged so that the players can dealt with. I believe that complete removal of the spell from a wizard is a very just punishment - they need to be able to prove they can RP it correctly before they are granted access to the spell in the first place. The same applies for polymorph. These spells don't need to be limited but too many players have been abusing them of late. The polymorph abuse has -really- bugged me lately...

I don't want to start a flame war, whine thread, or any of the sort, but I feel that the game is being limited too much of late and it might be deterring some players. Yes, I know very well that this is an RP-oriented mud, but limiting the game part behind it is not going to attract many players. To some of us it may feel like we are being breached in.

Just my opinion - I do NOT want to start any troubles with anything in my post... I love debates.

Lerytha · Post by **Lerytha** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:19 am

As a long-term player of a wizard, I think the idea of markers is a brilliant idea.

Already, I RP that my character has a certain area in Berdusk where she can teleport to - a certain area in Westgate where she can teleport to, and a certain place in Ardeep and Waterdeep, as well. I think if you are willing to RP the limitations of teleportation, then it is fine.

However, there are always those who will not do so, and I think therefore that a marker would be a good idea. It would make the difference between "evil" and possibly selfish wizards, who would place their markers in safe areas, and "good" (selfless?) wizards who would actually take their time to place markers in dangerous areas.

The only problem is, I think 25 areas at grandmaster is too few areas. I agree there should be some limitation, because otherwise, it has no effect, but perhaps it could be two locations per spell-level? That way, it allows wizards to have that little bit more flexibility when choosing their marker areas.

Saying that, if it was kept at 25, I don't think I would be -too- concerned, because it would make for interesting RP, where a wizard thought carefully about their locations: do I choose a location in Waterdeep, or somewhere remote where I can escape an attacker?

Decisions, decisions...

But I like the idea.

Elenthis · Post by **Elenthis** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 pm

I like the idea of markers somewhat. But I have a suggestion that might "meet between". In some mythologies in which wizards can teleport, there are rooms that make your chances of success MUCH greater. What if you were given 10 markers per character as per the "marker" rulke described above, OR you could teleport wihtout a marker. Now...instead of teleport as it used now being anhialated, teleport used a static 50-75% of your mana. (instead of greatly affecting the chance of fail, you affect the energy needed to focus). This would allow a wizard to have enough energy to help a newbie, but also make sure that even a high-level wizard could not simply teleport to an evil player or mob with the hopes of a hit-and-run or someothersuchsillyness. Whattdya think?

In conclusion, My idea is:

10-ish markers per wizard (based on skill level)
increasing teleport without a marker to static 50-75% (perhapse with reduction based again on skill-level)
~Elenthis.

Mask · Post by **Mask** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:14 pm

Hi Everyone,

Before you all go too far down into this discussion, let me point out that we are unlikely to spend vast quantities of effort enhancing one spell, which is what 'markers' would require. Our limited time will be better spent working on other things.

'Simple' changes to teleport to make it work on a location basis rather than to a character would be to make you teleport to the name of a room, rather the name of a character. An 'error factor' can be introduced which would introduce an error of between 1-10 rooms in any direction.

That would allow for a higher level spell of 'Teleport without error' without that fluctuation.

Marty

Theillik · Post by **Theillik** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:13 pm

I think Mask's suggestions are very practical.

A 0-10 room error factor would be perfect.
What about a percentage of damaging yourself?

I think what would solve all the problems with the spell is to implement a larger mana usage, i.e. 75% or more. This would automatically imply that the wizard spent a lot of time focusing energy and planning. Yeah...I think that would be easy to implement into the codes and solve the problem of random/mass teleporting.

What does everyone else thing?

Rhytania · Post by **Rhytania** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:19 pm

This will definitely make it more practical and make people think twice about teleporting randomly.

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:31 pm

Can't agree with markers but yes, I think increasing the mana usage of teleport is a very good idea. 75% sounds like a pretty good area. This would stop the twink wizards from teleporting to an area to help their friend PK someone (they wouldn't have enough mana to effectively attack) it would also help deter those players who like to use teleport for the simplest tasks. Actually in the FR novels I have read I have only seen one character teleport ONCE, that's it, and even then it was under extreme circumstances. The same with flying, wizards in FR DO NOT fly everywhere like they do in FK, nor do they teleport everywhere, even going on long journeys. They are extraordinary, but they travel just like everyone else, unless they absolutely have to use teleport or need fly, but they don't use these spells for everyday menial tasks.

Too many times in FK I have seen a wizard teleport to a PC for the sole reason to chat. In FR no wizard would ever do that, unless it was urgent.

Jadom · Post by **Jadom** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:45 am

This is true, but I also doubt you'll find anywhere in FR a reference to a wizard collapsing to the ground and saying he can't go any further until he recovers movement points while his companions aren't even winded.

There are some inherent limitations to MUDding that do not apply to table-top.

While to some extent I can understand the objection to wizards using spells frivolously, I find the idea of "You should not even dream of casting a spell unless you or a friend is about to die!" to be worse.

Ellian · Post by **Ellian** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:29 pm

Theillik wrote:I think what would solve all the problems with the spell is to implement a larger mana usage, i.e. 75% or more. This would automatically imply that the wizard spent a lot of time focusing energy and planning. Yeah...I think that would be easy to implement into the codes and solve the problem of random/mass teleporting.

Telk wrote:Can't agree with markers but yes, I think increasing the mana usage of teleport is a very good idea. 75% sounds like a pretty good area.

Remember though that a spell slot system has been in the works for quite some time now and when it is implemented it will replace the "mana" concept currently in use. And in any case, mana percentages are relative, 75% for one wizard might be 50% for another, and 30% for yet another.

Jayson

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:44 am

Along with an increase of mana cost, What about giving the caster an 'combat sense' as if they just faught. This would cut out the TP, meditate, Kill orc Effect.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:56 am

Isnt the mana system being changed (fairly) soon?

Theillik · Post by **Theillik** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:18 am

If the mana thing doesn't work and that system is changing, then have an error percentage should be implemented. This of course would have to depend on the skilllevel. GM would end up perfectly on target, for example.

Do you all think that would work?

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:38 am

I think it would be better to stick with the core rules for teleport. But since you cant incorporate familiarity, I like what Mask said where if you fail, you are teleported up to 10 rooms away. Also, there could be another chance you take damage because of teleporting into an object or something.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:41 am

Will a random 10 room deplacement really work to make wizards think "twice" before they teleport? I am wondering.

Maybe that's at least enough to make them "look before they jump" (as in, at least magic mirror before they blindly teleport), I don't know.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:26 pm

Well, if they are teleporting into a dungeon of some sorts, a random 10 rooms could land you anywhere, with any number of enemies. So a wizard not looking to see where they are teleporting first could land in some serious trouble.

The random chance of damage, the damage would be fairly high (1d10 core).

I agree though it might not exactly be the best failsafe, but familiarity I think would be nigh impossible to code. With teleport and damage, a wizard would have to consider: Do I wanna risk taking damage as well as landing right in the middle of possibly a group of enemies? A dragon?

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:31 pm

Being moved 10 rooms away does not make much of a difference I think.

Especially when you can be invisible, have water breathing on, and be flying. What could happen to you really? The only danger I could see would be to pop in a dragon's den. That's hmmm 3 or 4 rooms on the 28767 rooms of the mud.

So, about 0,0139% chance of getting killed.

That's not really what I call a risk.

Teleport

Teleport

mask's suggestions

hmm..