Two pieces of news about the deities

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:22 am

1 - All the deities now have 3 supplicate objects. So, supplicate away! Note that some of the deities will grant you 'tokens'. Keep those, they will get used to trigger some special faith quests (try keeping them in your inventory when you visit the mobs of your faith).

Note: When determining what supplicate object you should get, the game checks what you are wearing/holding. If you wear/hold the first supplicate object but not the second supplicate object when you supplicate, you will get the second object. So make sure to wear/hold all the supplicate objects before supplicating again, if you want a new object.

Note: Remain IC about gaining favour. It's not a race, take your time. Do not just target an area filled with followers of an enemy of your god and raze it (especially if it is a temple and it would be well-defended ICly). For temple-like areas, remember that, even though the code might let you kill them all on your own, you still shouldn't do that. ICly, if someone attacks a temple, all the priests and mobs there would gather to defeat the intruder.

Note: Some existing supplicate items were changed, to try and achieve balance between the deities, or just to fix bugged programs.

2 - automatic favour, that is, holy symbols glowing blue/red.

We changed a few of those, once again to try and achieve balance between the various deities. A general change was that no one will lose favour for casting helpful spells on others (so evil clerics can happily heal their friends now). Consider this as a measure to inspire you to group up.

Note that the principal sources of favour should be, in no particular orders, (a) quests directly related to your faith, (b) blessings from the deities observing your roleplay, and (c) blessings from faith managers. The (c) option being still under discussion.

Happy mudding!

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:49 am

Note that the principal sources of favour should be, in no particular orders, (a) quests directly related to your faith, (b) blessings from the deities observing your roleplay, and (c) blessings from faith managers. The (c) option being still under discussion.

I agree with a great deal of this post, this is really the only part I have questions about. Parts A and B seem to be very limited things to me. Quests directly related to a faith are few and far between. Don't take this as a complaint, it's not. I know there are lots and lots of quests in the game, there just aren't that many that are directly faith related. Second listed is blessings from deities observing your roleplay. This is certainly an admirable sentiment, but I don't think it's feasible under the current rate of imm blessings. Frankly in the entire time I've played here I've probably been blessed by imms a total of 20-30 times maximum on all of my characters combined, a great many of those coming during somewhat rare mass RP events like when an imm visits the square or something along those lines. I'm in favor of using imm blessings as a primary source of favor, but we need to make sure that blessings are happening at an appreciable rate, otherwise everyone playing is going to be stuck at 'ignored' favor forever.

Part C seems to be a way of improving the system, but tends to be subject to many of the same problems as part B. Faith managers will vary in activity and will likely be limited in both the number and size of blessings they can bestow. It's an improvement to the system, but again, we need to make sure the blessings happen at an appreciable rate.

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:02 am

Dalvyn wrote:1 - All the deities now have 3 supplicate objects
Note that the principal sources of favour should be, in no particular orders, (a) quests directly related to your faith, (b) blessings from the deities observing your roleplay, and (c) blessings from faith managers. The (c) option being still under discussion.

I agree with this entirly... as with the post regarding the reply for this... Item (b) IS rare... and we can not help that with the amount of IMMs here... but it should be more favour ganed from them...
I do not believe i have ever had a quest directly related to my faith. But I am not sure how to spot that...

Just in my honest opinion

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:24 am

I too concur that actual favor from the gods is the best (highest-quality) way to increase one's Favor-- and that it's likely going to be tough unless the IMMs terribly want to spend all their time watching and passing out favor rather than actually roleplaying their deity. This would probably especially affect characters who were loners or uncomfortable in crowds, considering Balek's observation of most deity appearances being during large gatherings. Even with the addition of the faith managers, as was mentioned previously, an imbalance could be created by the different amounts of time that various managers are able to play.

I'd suggest some sort of system where players could give other characters favor if they saw that character doing something God-happy, but I think the potential for abuse there is far too great

I was hoping a good suggestion would occur to me while typing this, but I'm stumped.

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:38 am

Amalia wrote: I'd suggest some sort of system where players could give other characters favor if they saw that character doing something God-happy, but I think the potential for abuse there is far too great

Far too great... if they impliment something in like they do for Kismet... no one still will NEVER grant someone favour because it would decrease theres more. People hardly ever reward others as is due to kismet loss... save for me... i have mucho to give... and love to reward to RP i deam to be out of the ordinary for an Inforced RP Mudd...

Back to favor... If possable, code wise, to grant the person gaining faith to gain more faith with the more people that are in the party... as they do with XP (or at least i think they grant more XP for the more in the group)?

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:53 am

Why yes, thanks you! It only took me the best part of two days (some 20 hours total) to fix all the supplicate objects and add the missing ones.

Now I'm beginning to sound like Sharni, but I'm also beginning to understand her frustrations with players complaining sometimes.

Alright. The big part of the post was to be that you can now supplicate all 3 items and that evil priests can now happily group up and help their friends. But I'm fine with turning this thread into a discussion on giving out favour. This is a topic that we have been briefly discussing while dealing with other topics.

One thing to remember though: currently, as a deity, you can only bless your followers, not followers of other faith. This is something that should (will?) be changed soon, and that should help somehow. Do you have other suggestions to help with the favour?

Note that, in my opinion, it shouldn't be too easy to gain favour either. Some deities, who were giving favour for trivial things, have been toned down as well. It's fine if it takes a lot of time to get enough favour to supplicate. Remember that, once you have the 3 supplicate objects, you're done as far as supplicated objects are concerned. And "being done" is never a good thing. It's always better to still have something to accomplish, a goal to strive for.

Boe · Post by **Boe** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:35 am

I have two things to add/comment on.

Firstly, it is questionable in my opinion to allow other deities than your own to grant favor. The reason I find this an iffy idea is for the fact that if deity B gives favor for something then the character has that doubt of if it were their deity and then this is bound to happen where a character gets favor and then their deity has no idea and that is sure to lead to awkward situations. In addition to that, it could potentially make the deity team seem very chaotic and unorganized.

Remember that, once you have the 3 supplicate objects, you're done as far as supplicated objects are concerned. And "being done" is never a good thing.

I agree, so I propose that there be a consumable/useable item that can be granted similar to the glittering gems of everchanging colour. That gave me, personally, plenty to continue to strive to in order to get my equipment set as I wanted it to be. Perhaps introduce something small for each faith? I know this is proposing a fourth supplicated item, but what I am suggesting is a fourth item that isn't as difficult to get, can be achieved through means other than supplication and only cost 1-2 favor levels depending on said item.

Those are just my thoughts. *Shrug*

-Kyle

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:52 am

Quick question....Will spells like bulls strength and trollish vigor also no longer take away favor?

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:51 am

Dalvyn wrote: One thing to remember though: currently, as a deity, you can only bless your followers, not followers of other faith. This is something that should (will?) be changed soon, and that should help somehow. Do you have other suggestions to help with the favour?

What ever happened to quests that were submitted for the quest-writing competition but never coded? I submitted three quests, two of which are very large and require extensive coding. One even needs a small area added. I was told that they were going to be coded and added. They still aren't in the game. Those two quests had religious aspects that would grant favour as a reward for successful completion (by PCs of the correct faiths).

I adore writing quests and designing areas. My frustration comes in my utter inability to code. If someone is willing to work with me on that score, I'll happily crank out a variety of religious quests.

Dalvyn wrote: Remember that, once you have the 3 supplicate objects, you're done as far as supplicated objects are concerned. And "being done" is never a good thing. It's always better to still have something to accomplish, a goal to strive for.

I don't think there's such a thing as "being done" in terms of favour. Some supplicate objects are expendable, so there's always the odd chance that a PC needs to gain favour to supplicate another one after using all the charges.

Certain divine spells also have a favour cost (last I heard), so a priest/druid who casts those spells needs to regain the favour lost. Supplicating other things (i.e. resurrection) also costs favour.

Is there any ETA on the Imms being able to reward favour to everyone regardless of faith? Playing PCs in faiths lacking active deities, I can honestly say that I haven't seen a favour reward from an Imm in more than a year. This is, at times, very frustrating.

I like the idea of faith managers being able to reward favour on other faith members. I think a small kismet and favour cost would be well worth it to promote good role play. I've seen the topic of being "greedy" with rewards come up before, but I feel that those who will be chosen to manage the faiths will be people who have shown that they are both good roleplayers and generous with OOC rewards.

Ellian · Post by **Ellian** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:57 pm

Boe wrote:Firstly, it is questionable in my opinion to allow other deities than your own to grant favor. The reason I find this an iffy idea is for the fact that if deity B gives favor for something then the character has that doubt of if it were their deity and then this is bound to happen where a character gets favor and then their deity has no idea and that is sure to lead to awkward situations. In addition to that, it could potentially make the deity team seem very chaotic and unorganized.

I believe the deity team has its own private section of these forums to discuss followers' standings with their deities. Perhaps when favour is awarded for good faithy roleplay by a deity other than your own, that deity could post a summary or log of the roleplay for the character's deity and the rest of the deity team to see.

But to be honest, I don't really see much of a problem here to begin with. What awkward situations could getting favour from a member of the deity team other than your own deity lead to?

Boe wrote:I agree, so I propose that there be a consumable/useable item that can be granted similar to the glittering gems of everchanging colour. That gave me, personally, plenty to continue to strive to in order to get my equipment set as I wanted it to be. Perhaps introduce something small for each faith? I know this is proposing a fourth supplicated item, but what I am suggesting is a fourth item that isn't as difficult to get, can be achieved through means other than supplication and only cost 1-2 favor levels depending on said item.

If it took twenty hours to revise and add to the existing supplicate items, how many more would it take to go back and add another to each deity file, and on top of that, alter the supplication code to make these new items cost less favour?

Boe wrote:can be achieved through means other than supplication

You could always write and submit a faith-oriented quest with the reward of such an item.

Algon wrote:Quick question....Will spells like bulls strength and trollish vigor also no longer take away favor?

Your answer:

Dalvyn wrote:A general change was that no one will lose favour for casting helpful spells on others

=)

Dalvyn wrote: The big part of the post was to be that you can now supplicate all 3 items and that evil priests can now happily group up and help their friends.

I know that those two subjects have come up in conversation with friends before, and it's great to see so many positive changes being made to the game these past few months. Thank you for the time you put into these fixes.

Jayson

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:40 pm

Dalvyn: Have the current supp objects that players own been updated, or will players need to re-supplicate in order to get the changes to an object they may already have?

As for allowing deities to award favor to PCs of different faiths, it is a very good idea. Ask yourself this question: Does the player of the deity your PC worships live in the same time zone as you? Some PCs are hardly ever on at the same time as their deity. By limiting favor awards to only that deity, some players will receive far less benefit. Imms do indeed have a forum where we communicate observed faith behavior and rewards to each other. I have several times seen excellent, faith-based rp that I would have preferred to reward with favor rather than kismet but been unable to do so.

Several of the supp objects can take damage or be used up. I don't see a need to add a fourth. Lots of favor can be used for ressurections, recalls and avatars as well. It might not be a bad idea to increase the favor cost of PC cast ressurections. It would have the added benefit of pushing PC priests to require a bit more on the part of the raised. Just a thought.

Thanks for the hard work Dalvyn.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:54 pm

The existing supplicated items should be (actually, should already have been) automatically updated.

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:30 am

Well I have an enchangress and she has been faithed for the better part of 50ish hours.... and yet.. i have not been able to level her faith a single time... my amulet glows... but yet... nothing yet on the score...

Some Gods have it set so it was quite easy to gain faith... one of my chars went from ignored to loved in an hour and a half (or less time i was not paying attention) and i couldn't believe how easy it was... but my other char... she still has not gone up

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:51 am

Different classes, I believe, gain favor at different rates. For instance, priests will gain favor faster than any other class.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:59 am

Lathander wrote:Different classes, I believe, gain favor at different rates. For instance, priests will gain favor faster than any other class.

Unless something has been changed now, I dont think thats necessarily true. Speaking purely of coded favor for actions. A deity that gives favor for backstabs and stealing would have a thief gaining favor quickest. For kills, more than likely a warrior. A good deity that gives favor for healing, yes, a priest, but many evil deities dont give favor for healing or for harmful spells, so that leaves priests only able to get favor by kills, and priests are not always as good at killing mobs for a long period of time as a warrior (meditation comes into effect for a priest, while a warrior has more attacks and hp, and usually damage). So a warrior is more suited for this job. All in all, I dont necessarily think the statement that priests gain favor faster than any other classes is true.

Unless you mean something other than what I speak of, of course, such as rewards of favor for RP, then yes, a priest should get more faster.

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:24 am

What about defeating enemies? Long, long ago we got favour for, if I remember correctly, sacrificing corpses. Now still if I remember correctly, that was taken away because it wasn't very IC. Then it was for killing enemies of the faith and certain monsters and blah blah blah. Now this was fine except it didn't take into account all of a faiths enemies. It gave favour only for killing the deities main enemy. But in my opinion that is not good because most faiths have multiple enemies. If you have a Faiths and Pantheons handy just open it up to any god, most have many enemies. As I always do take Talos for example 14, count em' 14 enemies! And we are only getting credit for offing Chauntean stuff.

There is in my estimation at least one very good reason for expanding the limit of where you gain favor from defeating enemies. It can expand the possibailties of rp. Instead of Every time the Talosian gang gets together and starts drinking, we run off and find some poor Chauntean to harrass, we have 14 other options! This sort of knowledge can also give the imms a fun way to actually lead the church. They can say 'Hey High Priest, I want you guys to go fight Sune, and next month we are gonna hit Lathander hard. Perhaps after that we will fit in Oghma and Helm in the winter months when its not as easy to set a forest on fire, that snow sure ruins a good burn.' This will also give us reasons to go find other places to play. Don't get me wrong I love burning that Chauntean altar but you can only burn it so many times before it just gets old.

anyway you get my point. Changes so far sound great Dalvyn.

Ninde · Post by **Ninde** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:15 pm

I understand how faith points shall be related with roleplay, but I have two questions referring to this;

First, most of the high priests are not active players anymore..I found it little nonsense to wait for a High Priest to appear online for months, to raise your deity points..It goes the same for faith managers..Each managers would be chosen for each deity requires some roleplay, and I take that roleplay cannot be implemented in two days.

Second, I noticed some of the mobs used to award deity points do not give deity points anymore.. For Corellon followers, some drows and mostly all orc mobs used to give them. Now, only some drows in a certain area gives them. If a race or, foe of the deities will give faith points, why dont all drows give these points? Some drow mobs are better than the others? I have difficulty to understand the reason behind that.
Thank you.

Cyric · Post by **Cyric** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:20 pm

Sacrifice is still in effect, but it was tweeked. It is level based, and therefore a level 50 can't go to Howling Peaks and raze the place in order to fill their favor. Likewise, players have started being penalized whom suddenly lose 10-15 levels immediatly after gaining a deity. The penalties differ from loss in favor, loss in exp, and loss in stats.

As far as killing deity enemies, yes, that works too. Your deity might have a racial enemy (Think elves for Gruumsh) or a faith specific enemy (Think of slimy Mystrans vs. the rightous Cyricists!). The only problem with this is that it inspires a single person to go on a raid and destroy an entire temple of faith enemies, just because the code will let them. So not a lot of temples have coded "folowers".

Paskry · Post by **Paskry** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:45 pm

I will try to keep this as condensed as possible.

Amalia presented an idea where you could reward favor.
I think that this would work well if there was a few requirements:

That your favorlevel is at loved.*
That your level is greater than whom you are rewarding.*
OR
That your level is at least 43.*
That the person you are rewarding is of the same faith as you.
That the cost of favor for you is greater than whom you are rewarding.

*This would be overridden in certain cases such as a Faith Leader.

Paskry

Paskry · Post by **Paskry** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:10 pm

This is in relation to FavorLevels:

Perhaps we could use a rank system within the faiths. Each faith would have its own personal faith ranks though they would all follow the same formal guidelines.

Initiate
Brother/Sister
Class specific(Ranger, Druid, Fighter, etc.)
Paladins
Master
Elder
Class specific(Rangers council)
Hero
FaithLeader

Just a rough draft, though each level would have a maximum value of favor:
Initiate has a total of 50 points
FaithLeader has a total of 400 points.
While everyone would not have the same number, the score would display the current percent in the form of the existing favorlevels; it would be divided up like health and stamina.

The diety team would work together (perhaps a program would be written eventually) to sort the existing and any new initiates into the correct faithrank.

A Diety could increase a persons rank if significant RP is executed and the Diety Team agrees that it is warrented. Thus, any diety could notice and post a note on a board so that your RP actions will be noted whether or not you live in the same time zone as your chosen Diety. Also, each of the FaithLeaders would have acess to a current list of followers and their rank within the Faith. Once again, aleviating the problem with timezones that do not match.

Feel free to post a rant on my stupidity/insanity.(especially you coders who would need to figgure out how to do this) Or if you notice a discrepency/loophole/have a suggestion for a generic rank to be added.

Ok I am done now.
Paskry

Two pieces of news about the deities

Two pieces of news about the deities

Re: Two pieces of news about the deities