I thought that most playing here would have input on this, Both in FK and in pen and paper. So maybe you can help me.
I have always considered this spell a dedicated evil act and anyone useing it on my chars gets attacked if I catch them, no questions asked and no mercy given. When I am dming this spell can cause alignment shifts towards evil.
I was curious how other players thought of this spell. Do you think it is overboard to attack a person casting it on you? I consider it a sort of psychic attack. Delving a persons innermost personality.
How would the average Joe on the street react to this spell? If someone on the grid casts it on you do you get strikes for handing there head to them? I am curious on the average players thoughts here, I may need to moderate my roleplay considering this evil spell.
Tempus: edited to remove an inappropriate reference. Melodrama has little place here.
Know alignment, ideas?
-
Tazmin
If there was a request made to me formally, and I accepted it. That is one thing. If there was a need for it as for joining an organization, or for standing trial. Then there is a need for it even if I do not agree with it.
If someone randomly casted a know alignment spell on me specifically without requesting permission, I would be angry. Any spellcraft casted on someone who does not wish it is an offense, it goes against the laws.
As an avid follower of the law I would berate anyone who did something like that against someones will, without official permission from the "State" or the "Person".
Adorah
If someone randomly casted a know alignment spell on me specifically without requesting permission, I would be angry. Any spellcraft casted on someone who does not wish it is an offense, it goes against the laws.
As an avid follower of the law I would berate anyone who did something like that against someones will, without official permission from the "State" or the "Person".
Adorah
"Strength drawn... Solely from a single word..
That word is.. duty..."
That word is.. duty..."
-
Andreas
- Sword Grand Master
- Posts: 720
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:55 am
- Location: Mobile, Alabama
- Contact:
RE: Know Alignment
I certainly don't view it as an "evil" spell/act.
When I first started playing Andreas and made it known IC that I wanted to be a paladin, another paladin PC cast it on Andreas. I've used it a few times for the same purpose - to find out if Jane Doe is fit to become a paladin - read: does that PC have the required Lawful Good alignment.
I also used it once on another PC who follows an evil god but did not detect as evil. I don't see it as a "psychic attack" nor "delving a person[']s innermost personality" as alignment is only a general stereotype. Yes, a Lawful Good person will always obey the law and do good things, but a Chaotic Evil person could also obey the law and do good things... if it suits them. Knowing an aligment only gives you a vague idea of how a person MIGHT act. Granted, with the good alignments it's pretty simple to figure out. However, with evil aligments, you can also make a judgement on how a person might behave.
Being a Helmite paladin, I find this a very useful spell for my character in maintaining vigilance. Can he trust the Lawful Evil person to keep their word? Most likely. The Neutral Evil person? Probably not unless there was something in it for them and even then that could be shakey. The Chaotic Evil person? NOPE!
Could the target of the spell take offense? I suppose so. A good person might be a bit miffed but generally accepting of it if there was a good reason for the casting. Just running around and casting it to find out if so-and-so has been naughty or nice doesn't add up in my book, though. In fact, I believe that I've used the spell exactly three times - one paladin hopeful (who was not of suitable alignment), one evil person (very long involved roleplay that is still going on) and the previously sited example of a non-evil PC following an evil god.
Like anything else - just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should and always be responsible in the use of spells.
Tempus: edited to change the quote from the original poster.
Helm keep thee.
-
Cherishinar
One thing that struck me about Tazmins possible reaction to a Know Alignment spell being cast on them was whether or not the spell was a ranged spell and whether or not it allowed the target a saving throw.
Looking through a 3rd edition Players Handbook it appears the spell no longer exists in 3rd edition. I asked someone who has the 2nd edition book and the spell is ranged, 10 yards one creature or object and no saving throw is allowed. With those parameters the target of spell would likely not even know they were the target of the spell. While they may be able to discern the spell being cast (ie spellcraft) in their vicinity, if there are other people/objects around any one of them could also be the target of the spell.
With regards to it being an evil spell, well not many spells are inherently good or evil this being a divination spell makes it even less so as it only gains knowledge. It is the intent of the caster that decides if spells are used for good or evil. If your good aligned character attacks some good aligned priest for casting a divination while you happen to be in the vicinity are you being good aligned? Probably not.
Looking through a 3rd edition Players Handbook it appears the spell no longer exists in 3rd edition. I asked someone who has the 2nd edition book and the spell is ranged, 10 yards one creature or object and no saving throw is allowed. With those parameters the target of spell would likely not even know they were the target of the spell. While they may be able to discern the spell being cast (ie spellcraft) in their vicinity, if there are other people/objects around any one of them could also be the target of the spell.
With regards to it being an evil spell, well not many spells are inherently good or evil this being a divination spell makes it even less so as it only gains knowledge. It is the intent of the caster that decides if spells are used for good or evil. If your good aligned character attacks some good aligned priest for casting a divination while you happen to be in the vicinity are you being good aligned? Probably not.
I agree with Cherishinar, this spell is not intrinsically good or evil. We could start a big philosophical discussion about this, but I don't think it would serve much purpose (is a sword evil because someone may kill you with it?).
I would like to say that I do not consider that casting of a Know Alignment spell on a character sufficient grounds for a PK. Slightly rude if used without permission, perhaps, but certainly not a life threatening act by any stretch of the imagination.
To answer Tazmin's last paragraph, it is very doubtful that the average Joe in the street would even be aware of this spell being used to determine his alignment. Even if he were, as Andreas pointed out a characters alignment merely defines a broad ethos which that character subscribes to in general. At any particular moment the characters actions could be at any point within that very wide range. As such, I would suggest that the information gained from the spell is sketchy at best, and certainly not intimate in nature.
Yes, I would recommend someone for a strike if they PK'ed someone with the only provocation being the casting of a know alignment spell, especially since there is no way you can be 100% sure it was cast on you.
I would like to say that I do not consider that casting of a Know Alignment spell on a character sufficient grounds for a PK. Slightly rude if used without permission, perhaps, but certainly not a life threatening act by any stretch of the imagination.
To answer Tazmin's last paragraph, it is very doubtful that the average Joe in the street would even be aware of this spell being used to determine his alignment. Even if he were, as Andreas pointed out a characters alignment merely defines a broad ethos which that character subscribes to in general. At any particular moment the characters actions could be at any point within that very wide range. As such, I would suggest that the information gained from the spell is sketchy at best, and certainly not intimate in nature.
Yes, I would recommend someone for a strike if they PK'ed someone with the only provocation being the casting of a know alignment spell, especially since there is no way you can be 100% sure it was cast on you.
-
Tyr
- Sword Grand Master
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:56 am
- Location: House of the Triad
- Contact:
Think of know alignment exactly like a modern day background check. Although you theoritically could run one on every person you meet in the street just out of curiosity, chances are you wont.
On the other hand if you are applying for a job you might expect one to be run on you. These things intrude on other peoples privacy but are tolerated in certain situations.
Another way you can consider them similar is their usefulness. Your background may show that you have committed some crimes in the past but it really does not absolutely tell whether you will in the future. It is an indicator and nothing more.
Tyr
On the other hand if you are applying for a job you might expect one to be run on you. These things intrude on other peoples privacy but are tolerated in certain situations.
Another way you can consider them similar is their usefulness. Your background may show that you have committed some crimes in the past but it really does not absolutely tell whether you will in the future. It is an indicator and nothing more.
Tyr
Though the spell to detect evil/alingment is not a dirrectly an offensive spell, Im sure evil charicters would find this agenst the law. I think the spells sould be limited in its usage in towns though as it could be considered and offensive spell. Personally I think making these spells in city offensive spells encourges outside city rp and more evil/good pc interactment rather then just kill on kill. I may be alone on this one, but Id like to see detect good coded and a bigger -negetive to detect good/evil/know alingment. Just because it seems you cant play evil withouyt everyone istantly knowing. shrug, rants alot
ryanC
ryanC
I fail to see how an evil person can find something to be against the law unless there is actually a law against the casting of this spell, in which case everyone would find it against the law, not just evil people.
As already stated, the spell should be used with caution, both in its interpretation and on reactions to it. It is intrinsically neither evil nor good.
As already stated, the spell should be used with caution, both in its interpretation and on reactions to it. It is intrinsically neither evil nor good.