Pkill rescuing

Theillik · Post by **Theillik** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:46 pm

Can a mob under attack by a PC be rescued?
* Always attempt to roleplay first.
* Mobs without proper names (e.g. an elf, an orc, a farmer) may not be rescued. Roleplay when the fight is over.
* If X enters while Y is fighting an unnamed mob, Y must stay to roleplay after the fight.
* Mobs with proper names (Lord Piergeiron, Foxfire, Markana, etc.) may be rescued.
* Unlike a PC vs PC fight, the killmode of the rescuer will not force the same killmode on the attacker when a mob is involved.

I do not understand this post. Why can we not rescue "mobs without proper names"?

My Ilmatari is going to intercept a killer of innocent people; there's no hesitation.

I just don't understand why we would wait for "unnamed mobs" and rescue "named mobs".

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:29 pm

My take is it is a blanketing policy to prevent possible PK related issues.

Players gain exp from killing mobs. If other players could think up an RP angle, they could turn any mob killing/fighting action into a PK event. Without much thought, I could create RP reasons for a character to defend just about any type of mob in the game.

Stating that players can only defend 'proper named mobs', mobs with an actually name such as "Lord P of Waterdeep", rather than 'a farmer' or "an orc" allows those who gain exp through mob kills to do so without constant risk of PK but grants RP reason to defend some mobs.

Got to keep in mind the type of mud FK is when you look at policies like this one. FK is a RP mud that allows PK sparingly. The folks who built it and maintain it, tolerate PK but prefer RP solutions to most events. The old 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should' phrase pops up here.

My thoughts, could be completely off. Has happened before.

Theillik · Post by **Theillik** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:52 pm

If my Ilmatari tries to rescue a defenseless farmer from being smashed, I will be breaking pkill rules.

I understand the idea of it being a "blanketing policy" to prevent instant pkill fights, but it seems so..odd.

Could this rule be rethought? For the sake of rp.

Kilak · Post by **Kilak** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:16 pm

It may be a blanket policy but if, for example, an evil walks into a village and starts killing nameless mobs and a "good" character walks in on it, then he deserves to get killed or pked. Yes, PKing is frowned upon, and I don't usually have a problem with that policy, but if you are stupid enough to get caught doing it, then suffer the consequences.

I know if this happened in a tabletop game, almost all of my characters would forcibly stop the offending character. RP is good and all, and I understand why we need RP before PKing, but in this case, the offending character's actions are RP enough for me. Just my opinion; whether its right or wrong.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:47 pm

*shrug* Offered my thoughts. Break the policy at your own risk. Up to you to explain the logged PKs to whichever imm looks into it. Good luck,

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:07 pm

If PKing on account of generic mobs is verbotten, then someone would need to clarify this for when a half dozen rangers convene on Shilmista the minute one person starts killing "an elf"(s).

I can see not actually performing the "rescue" command on a single mob, *if* the fight is already going on when the rescuing PC enters the room. But if, for example, a generic mob (say, the shilmista elf) is attacked by PC A right in front of PC B, then it seems to me that to rescue could perhaps have an IC justification.

But if not, and the above excerpt basically means to not get into pkill over generic mobs, then that should apply across the board, and let those who level do so in relative peace. Some people tend to overlook that Shilmista is a low level training area for orcs and such, much as the good races use the Howling Peaks. Were a group of goblin PCs to start convening in the peaks and PK threatening the newbie goodies who train there, chances are, a complaint would be filed.

Caelnai · Post by **Caelnai** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:50 pm

Kregor wrote:But if not, and the above excerpt basically means to not get into pkill over generic mobs, then that should apply across the board, and let those who level do so in relative peace.

Really good point, Kregor. I was going to make a separate post about this, but this thread will do.

I've seen a lot of this lately, up to and including rangers openly confronting neutrals who were just passing through forests, bothering no one. Some of this I'm trying to address IC, but I think experienced players should know better than to use their good-aligned characters to harass PCs (especially ones in plain armour,) under the guise of "facilitating RP". Everyone needs places to train and level, without a half dozen PCs materializing out of thin air to object. Haven't I seen seen evils punished for these spontaneous gatherings?

The rules on initiating PK should apply to everyone equally.

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:34 pm

I was always under the impression that "don't rescue nameless mobs" meant not to jump into the battle, but rather to wait until said mob was dead and then RP indignation and rage at the killing/being there. Is this actually the policy, or are such killings to go ignored in general?

One thing I do wonder about, though (and I hope this isn't revealing some plot thing I'm unaware of), is that apparently elves get some kind of alert when orcs start killing the Shilimstan elves? At least, that's what it sounds like secondhand. If nameless mobs aren't supposed to be looked after at all, I'm not quite clear on why such an alert would be coded.

I think this policy could definitely use some clarifying, cause I'm confused now

Gruumsh · Post by **Gruumsh** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:46 pm

I am not aware of any coded alarm for elves.

Theillik · Post by **Theillik** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:08 am

I guess if I walked in a someone killing a farmer or an elf or whatever, I would have to wait to see what is happening anyway. For all I know, the farmer tried to kill the PC or tried to steal something or anything!

But I could see that in the case of an orc attacking an elf, then maybe you might jump in and try to save the orc. I guess it depends on the situation.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

Paskry · Post by **Paskry** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:41 pm

As for the elf echo:
The trees wisper: 'Elves in Shilmista need aid!'

No, if that might be a global alarm or just an IMM giving echoes.

Paskry

<edit> Just read your post Grummsh

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:00 am

Well, that would explain why a half dozen rangers go pouring into Shilmista when an orc is levelling.

Another thing comes to mind, speaking of PKill rules. When you get a tell from someone who's halfway across the map, that they're in danger and threatened by a PKill, the Pkill rules state you are not allowed to travel that distance to engage in the PKill *unless* you have an instant transport spell. If this applies to other PCs in PKill situations, why is it acceptable to travel that distance to save mobs in Shilmista, especially when the solution for those running to Shilmista is, of course, to threaten a PKill situation upon the person doing the levelling?

Bearing in mind that Shilmista is well over a thousand miles from Shilmista, it is ICly impossible to make that rescue even on griffonback.

Dugald · Post by **Dugald** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:12 am

It's also icly impossible to storm a settlement lancelot style...there are necessary evils in mudds - no one wants realistic travel times

Aldren · Post by **Aldren** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:20 am

No, Dugald, but the lag from room to room in the wilderness has been scaled to better represent it. (off topic). And Kregor makes a more than valid point, evils should not be bombarded by seven rangers every time they go leveling. Most of the time this is caused by tells from player to player about it. It is, however, ridiculous to see this happen, as it breaks one of the most important aspects to the PKill rules, to which if it did not exist we'd have rampant murder all too often.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:48 am

Rangers storming Shilmista, Evils haunting Ardeep excessively... reminds me of one constant belief. No matter how advanced FK will become. No matter the changes, added spells/skills/trades, new areas, whatever.

FK will only be as good as the players who populate it.

Travel from Waterdeep to Shilmista to bother the young orc leveling, haunt Ardeep to bug the up and coming rangers, or any of the numerous other activities higher lvl characters do to get under the skin of young characters only causes three things to occur. Imm reaction (example: Our old Waterdeep RP rules). Other player retaliation (well, they bother our low lvls, we'll bother theirs). And turning new players away from FK cause you wanted to feel superior (I know I get a bit stressed out on my young forest walker in Ardeep lately).

I hate that we NEED Imms to put policies in place for PK rules on a mud like FK. Some of our player community just cannot control themselves for whatever reason, good and evil characters, and it makes me sad.

Sorry for ranting, but PK is a touchy subject for me.

Lorion · Post by **Lorion** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:39 am

to get back to the original question, imho(and that is only my opinion) the policy means that you shouldn't rescue a generic mob to avoid a RP before a PKill(you can hardly RP because the fight will most likely be over too fast for more than one smote or say). However, if it is in your char's nature(a priest of Ilmater seeing some villager killed) afterwards you can try to get into a PKill situation, if you RP it out correctly, over the fact that the other killed that random mob. It should still give the other one the chance however to avoid a PKill, be it by bribing, talking oneself out of the situation, fleeing or begging for mercy, just as in any PKill. I also think though that if you go around with the aim to find people killing mobs, to have an excuse for a PKill, and do so more than a couple of times, there will be some consequences, just as for example would be for a cyricist killing everything on sight, even though it's IC for him :p

Because Kregor mentioned it, i just thought of a question: Would this situation be acceptable for coming for aid? Players A,B,C and D; A a paladin, B an orc, C a warrior, D a mage. A meets B and gets in a situation that may become a PKill situation. He asks C for help. C is haflway across the map, but knows D, a wizard, who is however, in a 3rd corner of the world, far away from C. He asks D to teleport to him and then teleport him(C) to the place where A and B will maybe have their fight.
i dunno why, the situation just came to my mind. would this be acceptable?

As for the question of Rangers coming to shilmista to kill evils, and evils coming to Ardeep: the problem here is i think that many of those who do that don't necessarily want a PKill situation, but do want an opportunity to RP with an enemy. And if you feel in a RPing mood right now, it#s not nice if you just have to sit *somewhere* and wait for some enemy to randomly show up, which might happen the next minute, or in 10 irl days. I don't say it is the right thing to do, i just want to say there is a reason why they do this. If there was a place where both good and evils could meet, a dedicated place that everyone knows and where the chances to meet an opponent are high, you wouldn't have so many evils come to Ardeep and bug new players.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:39 pm

Lorion wrote:If there was a place where both good and evils could meet, a dedicated place that everyone knows and where the chances to meet an opponent are high, you wouldn't have so many evils come to Ardeep and bug new players.

This used to be Hartsvale iin times past, good and evil chars alike went up there, and there was more than a few run ins with opposite sides.

Although, there are places where both the good and bad go that forms ICly genuine encounters: Westgate, for example, drows a mixed crowd, and keeps no one out. You can meet anything from Paladins to orcs and tieflings if they have the notion to come there, anyone who's money is green (or platnum, as is the case)

The problem is getting the chars to break out of their shells to come and RP in any place besides Waterdeep, and for the purposes of roleplay locations, we will consider Ardeep part of the Waterdeep area, but I'm digressing here... and hashing on another topic, I'll carry it on in another thread.

Regarding the ABCD situation. As I see it, All the way up to D teleporting to the pkill would technically be appropriate to the PKill guidelines, as long as the communication is all IC. (In other words, if mage D wasn't even logged at the beginning of the PKill, and suddenly logs on in the nick of time to transport there, that's prolly not gonna go over too well with orc B, but most of us prolly already know that)

The contact via amulet is considered instant, as is the teleport by the mage. The mage is totally within rights to join the side of the paladin, provided a) he can only use the spells which he already has prepared and powered up (No memorization or meditation allowed in a PKill threat, even right before teleporting; just because you're not in the presence of the PKill, if you intend to join, you are in the moment in time to act), b) once in the pkill threat zone, you are committed to being a part of that threat, and c) the mage already also knows the person he's teleporting too, if not, that breaks the teleportation rules.

Far as summoning C to the scene. Seeing as doing such is an extended casting ritual, AND it stuns the summoner, it would prolly be a bad idea, because the spell caster would be considered helpless and ripe for the killing at that point.

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:56 am

He asks C for help. C is haflway across the map, but knows D, a wizard, who is however, in a 3rd corner of the world, far away from C. He asks D to teleport to him and then teleport him(C) to the place where A and B will maybe have their fight.

This should be fine. As long as all travel and communication is of the instantaneous variety, it doesn't break PK rules. Mage D teleports to C and gates them both to A and B, that's fine. But if Mage D only has Gate memorized and has to walk cross country to C before gating them both, that's be illegal I suppose.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:43 am

I'm not ignoring this post, there is an answer as to why the policy is stated in the current manner. I'll post the reasoning when I have more time.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:53 pm

The reasoning here, unfortunately, is primarily of an OOC nature. ICly, of course, there is no difference in the value of one mob's life over another. The reasoning behind the rule is that we prevent unscrupulous players from sneaking into a highly common training area (or waiting there invisibly) for the opportunity to "rescue" the first mob attacked.

We disntguish between named mobs for two reasons:
1. Anyone attacking a named mob is probably going to be able to defend themselves against a rescuer.
2. A good number of named mobs can cause a number of problematic OOC and IC issues for the mud if they die.