Some OOC from behind the scene

[Kirkus]

Now I don't know much about the IRC channel but it is my understanding that anyone can log in to it. Basically I feel that if you are going to complain about something don't complain on an open channel. Everyone of us I would bet has complained at one time or another. But the difference is complaining on a channel where anyone has access to it is not complaining in private. If and when I complain, I commiserate in person or on AIM or things like that. You know those are private, or at least more private. You then are complaining to one person and only that one person has access to the words you write.

[Lorion]

The point Elwin makes is that he looked beforehand who was in the channel at that time.

[Dalvyn]

Alright. I can't believe it's stooping THAT low, but "some" people who regularly attend the chat channel have been harrassing random players (actually at least two) that they think have sent logs to the imms.

I would like to ask them to stop this kind of utterly childish behaviour. Those that they randomly brand "traitors" (in what war? I do not know) have no reason to be harrassed in that way. I am actually very disgusted that some might have this kind of reaction. And, if I ever get to learn who is behind this, I will do all I can so that they are not seen on FK again. The mud certainly will be better without them.

To those who have been harrassed: Sorry it happened to you. FK is a great community, and there are several friendly and interesting people on here, but those are better found in game than on that IRC channel.

[Lerytha]

I don't really know what to say to this. I would agree that anyone caught harassing another person deserves to be kicked out of the MUD permanently. I think that at this point, the frustrations which are seen to be those just of the imms are frustrations felt by everyone.

Whoever did the harassing needs to gain a certain perspective.

[Theillik]

I think:

Gossip destroys everything.

I think:

If something happens ICly, let it go.

[Lerytha]

Linked to favouritism:

The RP today, was unwieldly, and whilst it was entertaining towards the end, and even in the middle, with classic moments like shouting at the top of our voices with a dragon (maybe) there, I don't think it was the RP that was intended.

Ways to combat this?

Well, a smaller adventuring party, obviously.

How is this chosen?

Players, perhaps. But then you would get accused of out-of-character cliques. Imm involvement, perhaps? Ah, but then you get accused of favouritism.

Whilst I have always sympathised with the imms, it took me the RP today to truly appreciate the conundrums they are faced with in running roleplays for us. So, yes... I for one support full appreciation of the imms, who have to wrestle with knots like that.

~Ol

[Caelnai]

Whilst I have always sympathised with the imms, it took me the RP today to truly appreciate the conundrums they are faced with in running roleplays for us. So, yes... I for one support full appreciation of the imms, who have to wrestle with knots like that.

I for one, thoroughly enjoyed today's RP, though I daresay it did not turn out as players or imms were expecting. I think the unexpected should be expected even in planned RP, and everyone's effort appreciated, even when plans go awry. Personally, my PC was having a really rough day...and the suprisingly large turnout for the RP was a pleasant surprise and diversion. Many thanks everyone!

[Raona]

As a neophyte to Imm-run RP's, I've felt repeatedly caught in a tension that relates to the title of this discussion, if not the bulk subject, so I'd like to ask about it here.

Imm time is precious - they can't stick around all day and night. But coming from tabletop, I've grown used to the idea that you don't need to (moreover, should not) rush through things, because you can always stop and then pick them up again later. For IC consistency, if for no other reason, though, that seems far less true on a MUD. I know that Raona is often guilty of "slowing things down:" for example, in the Demonbane RP, insisting that if not the fate of the artifact, then at least its keeper be decided before it was obtained, as well as urging that the entire background be shared with all present (though that was motivated in part by our Imm saying there would have to be a delay.) [Thanks to Rennick's player, by the way, for doing a superb job of summarizing all the relevant details for all to hear.]

My question is, what do Imms hope for in terms of pacing? Once in a while a subtle or not-so-subtle hint comes from an NPC to cut to the quick and get to the point. But at other times, NPC's seem to go out of their way to pick the least relevant of the questions they have been asked, and to bring up new, side issues. It leaves me very confused about how to deal with the OOC reality that the Imm hasn't got all day. Are the Imm's happier when their work is savoured, and an RP runs long, or does it make them irate? I'd really appreciate some guidance on this point, even if it consists of "depends on the Imm."

On a related note, this being my first time in so gargantuan a group, I'd also like to ask about OOC vs IC priorities in spam management. I try very hard to only do things that don't cause spam unless they contribute to the RP. Even, for example, looking at an NPC - because this causes an echo, it works best if everyone looks as the group first enters the room, and then not again, for the OOC reason of spam control. When I get hungry, I normally eat, but in a conversation or a large group, I don't, until there is an opportune break (we have to wait for something anyway, and there is no conversation going on). So for a time I "starve," but that seems better than spamming in the middle of a conversation (not to mention eating while a dragon is talking, or something of the sort). I'll also avoid drawing and sheathing my weapon, and still say in conversation that I'm armed/unarmed, in the OOC interest of keeping the flow of echoes manageable. I've come to these habits by observation, not anyone's guidance, and I'm keen to hear if they are on or off the mark.

Finally, I would humbly ask that in general, when you enter the Market Square, keep quiet and listen a while to get a feel for what is happening there before you pipe up. I suspect it's perfectly IC for, say, a halfling merchant to charge in and set up shop even if there's a grave situation in the square and it is hushed, so I can easily forgive that...but a "serious" individual strolling into a dead-silent square where one person is addressing a hushed, nervous group and saying "Does anyone know where I can get some platemail?" just doesn't cut it.

[Dalvyn]

Very good points, Raona. I agree with you on nearly all of them.

I'll just answer to two of them: the mob picking up least interesting questions, and the expected pacing.

Mob picking up the least interesting (or less urgent) questions. Well, there are several things to take into consideration here:

- Questions can be lost in the spam. The spam is already terrible for someone in a group, with everybody smoting and talking at the same time. Add to that various game logs (X stole a rotten apple from mob Y, X has just connected, Y has quit, and so on), questions from new players and old alike, and you can see how easy it can be to miss a question.

- It's important to try and not leave anybody out of the roleplay. Someone who has not said anything suddenly asks a question? Well, better have it answered, so they do not feel left out of the roleplay. Someone keeps asking questions again and again? Better ignore some of those questions and allow other people time to chime in.

- Also, you do not get the same perspective on the roleplay than the imm. Some seemingly unimportant question at one time might be of very high important in a later subplot. In such cases, it's better to have the information first, then later have the opportunity to use it... rather than have a lot of information falling on you just before it is used, seemingly coming out of nowhere.

- Finally, you also have to consider what the mob might want to say, and which question he would prefer to answer first, and so on. Plus... there is also some desire to "construct the show", answer the most important question in the end, not in the beginning... keep people interested till the end (as much as possible).

As for the pacing... Well, that is not too different from tabletop. Yesterday's roleplay was a good example: it was getting late (for me), and a mob suggested that you would need more preparation, that it was foolish to continue right now. And it will be continued next time. At first, I had thought that Demonbane would have been found yesterday, but... the roleplay evolved in a different way. And that's fine. The pacing is mostly determined by the players (though, I admit that, when the roleplay becomes a bit too boring to watch, mobs might incite people to move along).

[Kirkus]

I would just like to put in my opiion on the eating thing. I eat almost every time I wake up in real life, ie almost every day. So I do the same with my characters. lately I have gotten into a habbit of moving almost every rp I have into a tavern. It makes it so I can stuff my face when ever I need to, and continue the rp at will.

[Argentia]

Having been the IC leader of the recent RP, I can now say I appreciate the IMMs work much much more. I'm going to blatantly say it, things can get *messy* sometimes. Especially with large groups, because naturally you're going to have differing opinions and not everyone is going to get what they want when you can only do one thing or go one way. So if one or two character's opinions are not decided on, rest assured that it's not favoritism at all, it's just... You can't do everything at once. I imagine the same thing goes for the imms. Sometimes you have to pick X amount of characters to do something, and you can't let everyone in when you can only take 10. I'm sure there's more to the issue of favoritism than just that, but it's still one thing to consider.

And sometimes things happen that no one wanted! And you have to realize, that if something happens that royally did not go your way, chances are it didn't go the imms way either!

And along the lines of favoritism, it's tough to get everyone involved. Just like Dalvyn said in another post things may happen like this:

Character comes to the square, where the group is setting up.
Character says, 'Oh, can I come with you? I wanna be part of it! Me! me! me'
Groupleader invites Character
Character accepts Groupleader's invitation
Character says, 'So... anyone knows where we are going?'
Character says, 'And what we are going to do?'

As the person who is leading the RP/group, you know that letting everyone in on the RP is going to make things messy. But at the same time, what IC reason do you have to deny them? And furthermore, you really want everyone to have fun, and include as many people as possible. Well, the point I'm trying to make is one that Lerytha already said.

Ways to combat this?

Well, a smaller adventuring party, obviously.

How is this chosen?

Players, perhaps. But then you would get accused of out-of-character cliques. Imm involvement, perhaps? Ah, but then you get accused of favouritism.

Whilst I have always sympathised with the imms, it took me the RP today to truly appreciate the conundrums they are faced with in running roleplays for us. So, yes... I for one support full appreciation of the imms, who have to wrestle with knots like that.

So I say anyone who criticizes the imms for playing favorites... Or for picking on them... Or for purposely killing them off, whatever... I say let those people run their own huge RP so they can understand how difficult it is. This is my OOC from behind the scenes!

And to the imms... Well, all I can really say is thanks! There was a time not too long ago when I was considering leaving the mud because it just wasn't fun anymore. But lately I've been having the most fun in a long time, maybe even more than when I started. So thanks!