Bards and Gods.

Gregal · Post by **Gregal** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:26 pm

Alright, so I was just thinking about what type of diety would a bard follow, All the basics come to mind Oghma, Mystra, and the good ones. But what about evil gods, I thought about Shar. Honestly though would Shar accept a bard into her ranks when her sphere is in secrecy. And I thought about all the other gods, I even did my own research on all the gods. And found that there isn't much evils that have bards as worshipers. Could anyone shed some light or advice, it would be greatly accepted.

Kilak · Post by **Kilak** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:42 pm

Not that it would be of use in FK, but bards can actually make good assassins. In a medieval type society, wouldn't you want a bard singing or playing in your grand hall? They could get in, would have some access that others wouldn't, and are known enough there to be able to walk out. They have magic that others can't think off.

So yeah, I can see bards doing the evil schtick.

In the second edition bards handbook, there was a kit you could take that was a bard who was trained in combat and assassination. He had spells like sound bubble so he could sneak into someones room, use sound bubble so that sounds within 3-5 feet of the caster can't be heard outside that radius, then kill them. Sounds evil to me.

As for the gods, I don't know.

Nearraba · Post by **Nearraba** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:53 pm

I actually think if you look in a different view, many of the evil gods would want a bard. Yes, Shar's main dogma is secrecy, but her faithful share everything together. In that circumstance, a Sharran bard might write books and poems about secrets. They might also perform to their brothers & sisters in a secret meeting or such.

Talos is another God I think that might enjoy having a bardly follower. This because, someone has to write down all the stories and maybe even in poetic form about him as well as his evil followers and their doings. The bard of Talos could write books warning of the destruction that will be caused if one does not kneel down to Talos.

A bard of Loviatar might enjoy pain however they have a unique liking to telling stories, writing poems, performing, or other bard-like things which would ultimately lead them to Loviatar’s ways.

I think in a way of looking at all the deities, every one of them has a use for a bard. In addition, all bards must have some neutral in their alignment; therefore they are not all-pure evil-evil-evil. Or at lest that is my outlook on things.

Hope that helped to some extent.

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:22 pm

There are bards of evil deities in the game already, so there is certainly a precedent.

The only thing to really bear in mind is the expectation of said deity. In the medieval world and by extension Forgotten Realms a bard is not limited to being the jolly troubadour that the class name evokes.

A bard may be a spy, a diplomat, a propagandist. Singing songs and strumming a lyre is just the tip of the iceberg in my opinion.

Provided your bard has something to offer a chosen deity, there isn't really a limit upon who you may follow.

A Malarite bard would likely sing lusty songs of the hunt, a Tempuran compose odes to warrior heroes. A Cyricist bard would spend a lot of time subtley twisting tales to put his deity in a better light, or generally just put down his many opponents.

Don't forget also that we now allow bards to be of any race. Why not a dwarven bard to sing work songs or a Centaur lorekeeper who holds the history of his people in his head.

The possibilities are limited only by how you interpret the dogma or portfolio of your chosen deity into the actions of your character.

Belose · Post by **Belose** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:12 pm

I don't know.. a Talosian Bard? Isn't that a conflict of interests? Talos is the god of destruction and hates those who create. Isn't the whole purpose of being a bard is to create?

Nearraba · Post by **Nearraba** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:28 am

A conflict of interests perhaps, though as Kelemvor said,

The possibilities are limited only by how you interpret the dogma or portfolio of your chosen deity into the actions of your character.

I see it as, yes Talos is the god of destruction and hates those deities who promote building, learning, and nature. Creativity though I do not think he would full out hate so much, though I could be wrong. His followers create storms with the powers he grants them, it would be good if they were able to create things to help them do their evil deeds.

Also, his dogma also says, "Preach the might of Talos, and warn others of the forces he commands." Someone has to write down stories and histories of things that happen to the Talosian faith, and if another bard from a differnt church wrote it the Talosian's might not believe it, so what more better than to have it down by the quill of his own follower.

Meekir · Post by **Meekir** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:52 pm

Some of the dieties do seem like a contradiction. While I enjoy unique character concepts, it's never fun to have a character that's screwed over mechanically - if you're a Sharran or Maskarran bard, when are you going to use bardsong? Are you going to sneak around in the shadows humming your sneaky themesong while people give you strange looks? Play your Bongos of Backstab for your friends? Seems like you force some of your special class powers into uselessness with some of the subtler evils.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:34 pm

I think a bard following Mask or Shar would be a great RP. It's got plenty of opportunity. I really like the idea of an unknown mysterious tavern performer. Or a creepy dark mysterious poet. Or the creepy man in the shadows, humming and singing songs quietly to themselves. Bards of Talos, I've seen very excellently rp'ed bards of Talos in game over my time here. :D

You never compromise your characters class if you RP them true to themselves. What makes a character a bard is how they RP it, not what bard skills they use. :3

-D

Dugald · Post by **Dugald** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:56 pm

The real problem being, that bards aren't divine casters - why would they devout themselves to one god? Especially a god that is diametrically opposed to the patron deity of bards...

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:09 pm

If you want to go that way - why would anyone who isn't a priest/paladin devote themselves to one god only? In most FR stuff people prayed to multiple gods for different things. :3

-D

Nearraba · Post by **Nearraba** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:16 pm

I think there was another post, discussing followers of one god praying to other gods. One reason, (And this could be just one of the many many reasons) a bard character that prays to more than one god, might choose to bear the symbol of one god is mayhaps that certain god's ethos’s are more to his/her likings.

As Mele said, about people praying to multiple gods for different things, I am sure even the divine casters pray to more than one god at times. No offense to Oghma of course!

However, just because he is the main patron of bards, does not mean all of the bards are forced to like and worship him.

Yzelle · Post by **Yzelle** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:19 am

Dugald wrote:The real problem being, that bards aren't divine casters - why would they devout themselves to one god? Especially a god that is diametrically opposed to the patron deity of bards...

Just because Oghma is the patron diety of bards, does not mean all bards would align themselves with him, the same applies to ANY class. And as far as the bard of Mask is concerned, it's not a matter of opposing Oghma to follow Mask. As I have quoted, ICly, on more than one occaision: Maskarran do not actively oppose Oghmans, for without knowledge and lore, there would be no intrigue. It is the Oghmans, who set themselves against the Maskarran.

And, touching on what Kelemvor said above, a bard does not mean you go around singing performances in public places, bards are far more versatile a class than simply a singing troubador, just as much as the rogue is far more versatile a class than simply a common thief.

Bards are workers of wit and intrigue, they possess powers of persuasion, illusion and charm that would find themselves very suited to a Maskarran (one of Mask's lesser-touted portfolios is persuasion and negotiation, and I don't care what some Cyrist will tell you, Mask is *still* the *real* god of intrigue)

The world belongs to the quick, the glib-tongued, and light-fingerd, a passage in Mask's doghma, bards are all three.

Even a deity who shrouds in secrecy, such as Shar, would not be ruled out for a bard to devote themselves. You don't have to share information for the world to hear, SOMEone has to be trusted with the information that is vital to share amongst the believers.

Dugald · Post by **Dugald** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:57 am

There aren't Bards of Mask. Bards aren't divine casters and Mask doesnt cater to that adventurering class. It was all so much easier when being a bard was a kit and forced to adhere to the nature of the class.

Meekir is right, I think, because the nature of the bard class is one who documents heroics (read good only) to inspire others. Since 3rd edition there has been some deviation, allowing any nonlawful alignments. But the way the class is perceived, is still that of inspiration...and not inspiration through tyranny or inspiration through physical pain. The bard class just doesn't mesh well with certain dieties.

But no class meshes with all deities. It should be the player's responsibility to look at his character's class and the edicts of a deity to see if there are severe conflicts, same goes for alignment. I'm not a big fan of noncleric/paladin/ranger/druid's having patron deities in the sense they are in FK, I don't think that's a secret from my other posts.

The way it is in FK, is that you're "Chosen". They aren't just your patron deity, you're their patron worshippers...and in that sense, a bard of mask is hard to swallow. I'd be terribly surprised to find a published instance of such in any of wotc's hundreds of npc's.

Keep in mind, Oghma has worshippers of all good/neutral/evil alignments.

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:47 am

You may not have seen or read of any bards of mask, yet. Consider that fk is not fr, it is fk. I know of few written resources that have bards of Talos but I have seen several in fk, we also have drow bards and I believe we have a dwarven bard. It is important that we be a community that allows for unique rp situations as long as they have been SUCCESSFULLY APPLIED FOR. If you want to make a bard of mask, you simply need to create a publication or act and adhere to that faith, there are various ways to preform and such. You can adjust your rp to cater to a faith and ethose. As the bard class has been opened to every single race as long as the character has neutrality in their alignment and I think that any deity would most likely welcome the addition of a bard to a faith. From the Storm sisters of Talos to the deadly mimes of mask to the wailing Anguishers of Shar to the Scalds Of tempus, to the Screaming Mimis of Gond, to the Golden dancers of Garl and the Moonlight Singers of Selune to the Mad Cyric Dancers to the Chauntean Crop Circlist to the Red Marmers of Llira to the Kelemvorite Funerary singers to the Grumushian Belly Dancers to the Waukenar Merchant Dancers to the Moradian Singers of the Anvil and so on, everyone has a right to be here if they can rp it well. And thankfully most bards rp their hearts out.

Dugald · Post by **Dugald** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:55 am

I fully accept that answer. The qualifiers are appropriate and understandable.

Ellian · Post by **Ellian** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:01 am

Nearraba · Post by **Nearraba** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:51 pm

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... .php?t=412

A wonderful story written by, Sandrew the Wise of Oghma, underneath Kingdom’s Journals.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:48 pm

Dugald wrote:Meekir is right, I think, because the nature of the bard class is one who documents heroics (read good only) to inspire others. Since 3rd edition there has been some deviation, allowing any nonlawful alignments...

Since the dawn of Bardism, in 1st ed AD&D, when the bard was created by dual-classing a fighter, thief and druid, bards have had the simple alignment restriction of having some neutral in their alignment (NE, CN, NG, LN or TN). As I recall, the bards' section of my old Rogues Gallery did, in fact, have some NE bards in it.

Bards intertretive talents can be used for good or bad, just as Griggs Brierfeet writes slanted news in the Kingdoms' Journal, there's a lot of power in those who control the words. And I echo Gwain, that just because you may never have read about one in an FR novel, does not mean it isn't possible in FK, 'specially if there's nothing to prohibit it in the campaign gaming materials. True, in D&D, and FR, bards aren't divine spellcasters, and wouldn't necessarily devote themselves to a deity, but in D&D and FR, not all paladins are celibate either. That's a choice made by the DMs, just as I am certain, that RPed well, a bard of a non-typical deity would be well-received by the DMs of this game.

Rhytania · Post by **Rhytania** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:31 pm

There are plenty of bards who devote themselves to dieties in the novels. Storm Silverhand, being one of the most popular. The beauty of DnD is that the characters can be as varied as your imagination allows. Which is a far cry from what mainstream entertainment is, allowing you only certain stereotypes or archetypes. Have fun with it. Its what its all about.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:59 pm

Call me crazy, but, what god wouldn't want a bard singing their praises? Even if it is only to the god itself while they outwardly appear to others as a thief.

-D