Debate: Do people level up too quickly?

[Dalvyn]

Some people prefer RP over all else.
Some people prefer a balance of RP and mechanical accomplishment.
Some people just want to stick to themselves and have a mechanically strong character in the event they feel the urge or are forced to RP.
None of these people are bad.

Right. Since the debate has already been side-tracked, we might as well go with the flow.

Can people with those different points of view on the game co-exist on the same game? Can we have a game that "works" for all those kinds of players, and what happens when they interact?

[Japcil]

I think they can co-exist. They just don't give back to the game like those who RP. And their character life is shorter since they will GM all that they can and then quit or make a different character.

[Zach]

I think they can co-exist.... the point of this game (unlike most) is to not win and be the best... it is to RP and have fun... most people forget this... If you are having fun... then go for it... If you want to RP... better... but still... good for you! as long as you are having fun RPing...

I have a few chars that I made so that I can have something to do on FK when no one is around... or i just want to be in the mood to hack and slash, but when I see someone on that I can RP with... then I will switch...

A lot of times, it depends on your mood and want to be social or not...

[Raona]

There certainly are cases where the two world-views conflict. A new mage asks you to go to the School of Wonder to help them, but doesn't want to talk, just have you hack and slash and get through the quest. You are in a group where some want the loot, others want to RP through the quest. I don't have an issue with people leveling fast...I do get frustrated when it is clear that they would rather do that or collect powerful items than RP, *and* want me to help them with that, even though I'm here for the RP. But we can each deal with that ourselves, I think.

The biggest challenge for me are the power-focused who don't understand that not everyone is on the same page as they are, even after patient explanation. It's hard to do other than just ignore them, though that seems mean. Plus they sometimes get mad, and have the code-power to squish you for giving them the cold shoulder. But hey, that's real life too, I guess.

I do think that a MUD populated with a majority of such people, and seeking to keep them happy, would be a less wonderful place than the current FK...but I don't see a risk of that change coming here, at least the latter. Thankfully, the Imms are steadfast in their focus on this being a MUD where RP is valued highly.

[Kirkus]

To try and get us back on track let me throw out my point of view. The approperate speed for leveling depends on the character, their class, and a lot on their goals. Here is my point, a fighter just concerned with adventure is going to level faster than a priest/priestess trying to become a High Priest/Faith Manager of their faith. Basically if you want to be on the radar screen of the imms you should probabily have some noticably top notch rp ever couple of levels. That way you don't suddenly burst onto the scene and they look at you and see that you are all of a sudden level 50 with out them ever knowing your name before. Oh and consistancey is something that to be desired, I would think.

[Seraph]

Personally I find leveling as hard as hell especially on those late stages. Maybe it's because I'm fairly new but I've been playing non stop since I started and I haven’t reached 50 yet.

Increasing the difficulty of leveling would also increase peoples xp grubbing. As it is there are a number of ways to lose xp, with a spell or fleeing or death.

If you say it is too easy then so be it, but maybe you know something most of us do not. Some are just not as good as you guys.

[Zach]

in my opinion... i would like to see the rate to learn a skill increase, slightly, not very much... and see exp gain to next level increase...

[Valdimyr]

and see exp gain to next level increase...

I agree with Zach about seeing the experience needed to gain to the next level increased. As it is now, at least with my character I can go kill a few mobiles and I am able to level. Though, I usually never use it to level, I just let it sit there and grow because I am one of those junkies who feels he needs to at least be a novice at any and every spell/skill that he or she can learn.

However, on that note, I would not like to see it to where it's hard to gain the experience so that you never have enough to train the skills that you could obtain via being the certain level to learn such a skill. Although, on second thought, maybe I would like to see it be more difficult to do that as well.

In conclusion, I would like to see it harder to gain experience from mobiles and any other thing such as trades or quests that give experience. This way, you can't be a junkie like me and go kill 5 npc's of medium difficulty and have enough experience to train 5 skills to apprentice or enough to gain a level or two.

Also, as a side note, we may want to think about it possibly costing more experience to train a skill or spell. I'm not sure on this one, I will let the rest of you decide and see what the consensus comes out to be.

[Leohand]

Valdimyr, I am going to have to dissagree on the experience thing. It might be good for fighters, but what of wizards? It's hard enough to level up everything without making it more difficult. That's my opinion.

[Valdimyr]

I don't see how it is harder for wizards. I have a wizard, though I hardly play him, he always has enough experience to do anything as he gains it via spells. The only problem I ever have with my wizard and why I am unable to train anything is because I find it hard to collect money with a low-level wizard, unless you can form a group to go kill some npc's that hold a nice amount of coin.

[Leohand]

Well, I don't normally have an money problem for a while. I am good at being thrifty, early on at least, plus there are quests to earn coin. Early on I have the most trouble with experience. Not with fighters. With fighters it's the other way around, but with other classes, yup, experience is the tougher item to get.


edit : This is just my opinion, others can have different.

[Scylere]

I think making it more difficult to gain levels will make people spend more time mob-bashing.

[Gwain]

I level very slowly because I'm an old man and I like to sit around and talk, the only time I might rapidly level up is when I have the xp and no desire to improve any skills. I've known terrific players that have leveled to 50 in five days because they are good adventurers or they travel with experienced parties, some might do it solo very quickly based on intimate game information or knowledge of code, some might rp poorly because they've spent or spend to much time leveling and traveling. What can I say? I detest those that grind areas araranged for low levels constantly, but I applaud those that protect young adventurers in low level areas, I frown on those that level up quickly only to bully or plague low level players for good or for evil. I've seen code designed to slow down leveling and balance the game, I support it because it comes with good intentions for the players, I've always felt that coding of any sort was for the benifit of players and not a detterent, though it might seem that way to some. I've followed this thread with interest the past few months, and I've coem to the conclusion that leveling is a too bladed sword. You can level to fifty very fast, but you will pay rp wise, you can level very slowly, but you will pay codewise. How does this figure in the long run? Have a good attitude, do your best to show you respect the game and in character responsibilities for your actions and no matter he outcome, you will feel good. Roleplay as best as you can even if you spend the majority of your time leveling and accept that you may be cut off from some things sometimes but it comes with the path you have chose. Roleply all the time and level infrequently and you may be weak and unable to hold your own in a fight, accept this and roleplay accordingly. I can't tell people they level too much, I can't tell them they level infrequently, because it's what they want to do. If they can accept the results then good for them, if not then they might want to try making a new character or different tactics.

What would be nice is an echo that activates when you go to level, alerting you that by leveling you risk losing the chance to train skills and use xp for other purposes. If someone power levels another alert can pop up warning the pc that quick leveling might deprive the player of skills and that it is very hard to gain reasonable xp for training at later levels.

[Meekir]

Sweet happy jesus. whatever you do, please don't make it harder for new or casual players to play the game, in the effort to limit highly time-committed players.

if anything, it should be easier to train and level --- or at least to find the "hooks". I trust the imms to sanction cheaters (that's the only way to patrol roleplay). Seems like the committed players know where the skills and quests are, and new or casual players aren't allowed to ask. This is where I feel *my* disparity comes in: I don't know where to find skills and appropriate quests, and the death system punishes me for adventuring, especially if no one's on who I know (so I can't roleplay in the first place). sweet dancing jesus don't get me started on the death system. but some just "know where to go" with all their characters.

I don't care if people level fast or slow as long as that opportunity is available to everybody... and really, like Gwain said, the code is to benefit the players. the game is there for fun. unless people are being jackasses, in which case I expect lightning bolts from the sky, leveling fast does not seem like a problem.


*dancing jesuses (jesi?) employed for mild swearing. substitute a happy dancing ilmater as desired.

[Lathander]

IMO the fact that some people find it harder to level but easy to make coin, and others find it harder to make coin but easy to level, a rare few find it easy to do both, and yet others find it difficult to do both indicates that the balance is just about right.

[Leohand]

Can't say it any better then Lathander did. But I am in complet agreement, I like it just the way it is. I am just thankful that things aren't priced like the real D&D game. I haven't played in a while, but I seem to recall that a lot of the best armors could be up into the range of thousands of platinum.

I do so miss playing my helf-celestial half elven werebear, lol.

[Valdimyr]

Yes. I agree with the previous posts. Things are fine the way they are and we shouldn't change a thing. When I made my last comment about increasing the amount of experience it takes to train, I wasn't thinking on a new player's behalf and how hard it would be for them to train anything, especially not knowing where to go.

I do believe it is a shame for people that power level, because that isn't what this game is about. It is a roleplaying mud, and thus you should try to roleplay not hurry to be the almighty most powerful uber 1337 person around that can PK anyone.

I don't look down on players that do it, and there is no way that it can be stopped, unless an immortal or player notices someone that's doing it and gives them a little OOC message that, maybe they should slow it down a bit and have some fun. I mean, why try and change it so that they can't power level? The fun in the game is taking your time and spending quality time with other players going off on fun adventures or just sitting around a camp fire in the forest telling jokes and tales of the old. That is why I don't look down on power levelers, I just feel sorry for them. They are missing the bigger picture and what the MUD is really about and it is a shame that they will probably never find it's true meaning.

In conclusion: Let things stay the way they are so it doesn't make it harder for a complete new player and in return them saying to themselves, "This is way too hard to level or earn any coin, I'm leaving" and then we will never find any new people to help out or befriend.

I really don't roleplay with groups that much as I tend to stick to myself, though I always welcome company when the moment comes about. I do however roleplay by myself and even do smotes and things of that nature, even when it's just me, myself and I in the room. On that particular character that I speak of, he has over 550 hours so far and is only still level 40. So, if you think you have to level real fast to be all powerful so that you can take care of yourself because you are all alone, take it from me, you really don't have to.

I'm not saying don't go adventuring either. On the contrary, explore until your legs tell you they are going to leave you if you make them go any further. Though I don't like using it, unless roleplaying that it is a short distance of what I see........the reason I can survive anywhere I go and be by myself is because you can LOOK in any direction to see if something powerful is ahead, or you can use the greatest command ever, FLEE and you will do just fine. Also, always make maps of where you go, that way you can never get lost and end up walking into trouble. That in itself is a fun task that I also like to do, and it has given me a pretty huge array of different maps from everywhere that I have traveled.

I hope what I have said was read in full, or at least the main parts of my points and will be taken into consideration, especially for the ones that question if they do level up too quickly.

[Ceara]

I keep hearing in this thread about power levellers and twinks. But frankly I haven't seen any in game. Maybe I just don't know about them. It seems to me it takes quite a while to level. I have seen characters that don't rp much, don't stop on the road or whatever to do so, but that might be ic for them.
I call someone a powerleveller when they reach top level the same day they created, which I'm not sure is possible at all on FK to begin with. I have never seen anyone go from nothing to top level in a week or less as it's being suggested.
Now I don't know what people's levels are, and nor should we. Perhaps the person you think is a powerleveller just has some cool gear and is still midlevel. Or perhaps they were already high level and were wearing lowbie gear to throw people off for some sort of ic deception.
I think people should stop worrying bout what everyone else is doing and trust the imms to catch the cheaters. Start worrying about your own character and own rp.

[Leohand]

Ceara That's a very good idea for a deception, hehe. It has occurred to me. I have a few characters that are levelling up and keeping really weak armor because it's cheaper to have it repaired. So there's also that reason. Perhaps when they do hit level 50 I'll go on a shopping spree, but then, I rp a lot, so most people that see them will probably be able to catch on.

[Alaudrien]

Hiya all. I was just thinking today and talking to friends about skills and such. I like how it is now on the leveling front. It is not as easy as it used to be making it more of a challenge. Although I have heard from some friends new and old alike how they dislike how skills never raise anymore. I mean once they hit to near journeyman they rarely ever go up. I have come to care less although on some occassions it annoys me. When I play a new char and you have all these older characters then the new ones. You look at some of the new ones. Some you can tell are new because if they ever go to use there skill they are never up to snuff. I mean you have chars who like to sit around and rp or the ones who wanna go out and rp while on the move. For the moment it can take up to months and months of irl time to raise a skill up. While those that want to just sit and rp. Get struck with the urge to better themselves how can they without taking a bit of time off from there more rp time than to hack n slash? I think finding perhaps a medium on this..perhaps have role play reflect how fast or good your skills can raise? Perhaps favour with your diety? Glory or kismet maybe could affect it as well? Or quest that you can do now and again that would help better you in a field or two? -sigh- This is more me asking what was the conclusion of this has anything been decided as well as adding my opinion to this.

Thank you all ^^