Interactions between good and evil characters

[Ceara]

The entire point of what I was saying seems to have been missed.
Just because a character of one race befriends one of another that is an odd thing, doesn't mean that the person isn't rping correctly or that it could or should never ever happen.
My point is that unless you are the player, or you know everything about the character, then it isn't your place to judge wether they are acting ic or not.

[Duranamir]

In my opinion alignment is at best only a rough guide. The attitudes and prejudices of a Lawful good human priest of Ilmater would be very different from a Lawful good elven ranger. To the extent that they might well not agree on how to deal with a given situation. And potentially might come into conflict. I certainly have played characters who are a of the same alignment but have very different views and attitudes.

On Half Drow being a player of both Drow and Half Drow in my opinion they are NOT the same a Drow is bred born and raised in a society where strength is everything and compassion a weakness. This results in a truly warped (by modern morals) value set rightly perceived by other races as Evil. Even still do the Drow regard themselves as evil ? Or do they just think they are doing what they need to do to survive in a hostile world ?.

Half Drow have the blood but in most cases not the background. As has been discussed in other threads a fairly high percentage of half Drow are the results of raids and are raised in human or other societys. In the case of the game the home town of most half Drow is Skullport which is NOT a drow city by any means. So Half Drow are not necessarily going to follow the Drow beliefs and values in there case there is some form of choice. This does not mean they are going to be good by any means but it does mean they are not the same as Drow even if they may look like Drow.

But when i am playing a half Drow i expect to be discriminated against that is in general the correct reaction from most of the populace. In fact it is sometime more annoying not being discriminated against rather than the reverse. It is how people deal with a half Drow that i actually find interesting and how i deal with the reactions they have that causes RP.

Duranamir the Drow (and proud of it !)

[Ceara]

Well said Duranamir and I agree. I picked halfdrow because of the challenges I would face with my rp. I expect there to be prejudices and I enjoy the rp that comes from it.

[Kilak]

As my character's said in game "Like me grandpap always said... Get a measure o' a man (or woman) afore decidn' their worth."

[Aland]

The entire point of what I was saying seems to have been missed.
Just because a character of one race befriends one of another that is an odd thing, doesn't mean that the person isn't rping correctly or that it could or should never ever happen.
My point is that unless you are the player, or you know everything about the character, then it isn't your place to judge wether they are acting ic or not.

I think Kregor covered it pretty well. Yes, there are exceptions to the rules, where a dwarf might befriend a drow or something like that. But that's exactly it, it's supposed to be an exception.

If everyone just decides that their character is unique and bucks the cultural norms for their race, not only are you discarding an important roleplay element of that race, but also diminishing the Forgotten Realms feel of the game.

In a fantasy setting, where there is good and evil, killing is not evil. How many goods kill at the Peaks? How many goods kill the orcs in Shilmista? How many goods kill supposedly "evil" mobs?

So, you're saying killing is a grey area then. So why can't there be others?

They are innate states of being. You ARE good. You ARE evil. If you are neither or waver from side to side, you are neutral.

Then we return to the question of why we bother with putting Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic in front of the good/neutral/evil bit. If everyone of a particular base alignment is a carbon copy of eachother, and will always respond in the exact same manner to any given situation, why bother?

[Mitchell]

Half Drow have the blood but in most cases not the background. As has been discussed in other threads a fairly high percentage of half Drow are the results of raids and are raised in human or other societys. In the case of the game the home town of most half Drow is Skullport which is NOT a drow city by any means. So Half Drow are not necessarily going to follow the Drow beliefs and values in there case there is some form of choice. This does not mean they are going to be good by any means but it does mean they are not the same as Drow even if they may look like Drow.

Thank you for bringing this up, I have always been a little confused by the stigma against half-drow that everyone has been going by since the new character creation system came in with all of the new races. I remember reading about an NPC character in the book Waterdeep: City of Splendors once.. let me quote the section - feel free to skim as it isn't all relevant information but it describes a very prominent and

Kyriani Agrivar is the stunningly attractive, gray-eyed daughter of the late wizard Ostus Agrivar and a drow sorceress of Shadowdale. The lascivious and miscievous Kyriani has come to grips with her dual nature after twice separating into twin aspects of good and evil. When adventuring, Kyriani tucks up her shimmering silver-white hair away from her face and favors high boots, form fitting leather armor, and a cape. She prefers expensive, off-the-shoulder floor-length gowns when attending parties or services at the House of the Moon, or some compromise between these extremes when tending bar at Selune's Smile, a tavern she inherited from Luna (an avatar of Selune) and now lives above.
Since the departure of Luna, Kyriani has begun an apprenticeship under Lady Alathene Moonstar and made rapid progress with her command of the Art. Although most of Kyriani's former adventuring companions are in Tethyr, having marched south with Haedrak and fought in the Reclamation Army, Kyriani still sees them and her half-brother, Priam Agrivar (LG male Illuskan human paladin 10), from time to time. Kyriani chose to remain in Waterdeep, where she has a veritable army of lovers and a lingering loyalty to the city in which Luna chose to reside.
After her companions departed, Kyriani rose quickly among the ranks of worshipers at the House of the Moon to become the most influential layperson in Waterdeep's church of the Moonmaiden. Now that Luna has returned to the outer planes, Kyriani has taken over her former tavern. Kyriani was invited to become a Lord of Waterdeep in the Year of the Banner (1368 DR), after Danilo Thann resigned. Danilo requested that his replacement represent the Fair Folk of Waterdeep, and Piergeiron chose Kyriani for her ability to span both worlds. Kyriani is also an agent of the Tel Teukiira, and she works closely with the Blackstaff on a variety of covert activities in that capacity.

In looking for more canon references to half-drow, I found only a physical description in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and some peculiar non-canon references in a the D20 book Plot and Poison - Guidebook to Drow, http://elvis.rowan.edu/~klassen/gaming/ ... elves.html, and http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/ ... quatic.htm. All of these non-canon sources disagreed and left me confused about half-drow, so for the most part I'm disregarding them.

So, where does the idea for discrimination and distrust of half-drow come from?

[Kregor]

Imm rulings in previous threads, in effort to keep people from using Half Drow as a loophole for drizzt wannabees, for a major part, and to give them a deserved disadvantage for their advantages, for another major part.

And just like the fact that drow PCs can't come to the surface in FK, and other instances where imm decision has seeminglly contradicted canon FR source, just like in any D&D game, when DM rules come against canon, house rules trump canon.

[Lathander]

The entire point of what I was saying seems to have been missed.
Just because a character of one race befriends one of another that is an odd thing, doesn't mean that the person isn't rping correctly or that it could or should never ever happen.

Agreed. If a PLAYER is telling you that a cross-race relationship is bad rp or should never happen, then that PLAYER is wrong. However, those IC relationships come with IC consequences, some of which may be severe. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't be friends with both sides and have both sides approve. Now, no one has suggested this that I have read, but I want to make my point. PLAYERS shouldn't get upset if their PCs get into hot water because of their choices or cry foul if those IC choices result in consequences that they did not foresee Icly.

As for the half-drow point, and this is a personal opinion that may or may not reflect policy (love those disclaimers!), we imms try VERY hard to listen to and consider the wishes of the playerbase. After all, in some sense the game belongs to us all, we need each other. One of those things was the introduction of new races with half-drow being a frequent request. The game designers, rp imms and players gave input. Once it was decided that the race would be coded and allowed into the game, it was also decided that with the race there would come certain parameters. One of those paramaters is the way half-drow are viewed. Yes, there are many sources out there for what half-drow "really" are but we decided what they should be HERE. We can debate forever on their heritage and players can choose/write their own backgrounds for their PCs; however, half-drow are NOT generally viewed positively by society in FK. They are perceived as having still some vestige of drow within them that might burst forth and cause them to become super-evil malicious things at any point. They are not trusted, outcasts and often feared.

I (seee above disclaimer) find it slightly offense when I see all the work the design team went through to bring these races into FK within certain parameters and then read how those parameters should be further stretched. It doesn't make me angry, furious, or even upset. Please don't read those sentiments into my text. To use a word imms tend to hear a lot, but on the reverse this time, it just doesn't seem "fair."

[Duranamir]

In answer to Lathander about Half Drow. OOC i fully understand and agree that they should be outsiders and outcasts that is actually one of the reasons for playing them. And it is great RP. The character may not IC understand why he should be treated like an outcast but i the player fully accept and understand this. It makes for an interesting character and interesting interactions with the other players.

In ending thankyou very much IMM's for putting such a challenging race in to play. I love every minute of it.

Duranamir

[Caelyvar]

I cannot help feeling that I am just a little responsible for the discussion of Half Drow. . . just a tiny bit. . .even if I am not

LET ME HAVE MY Moment! *Grins*

Alright, I wanted to answer something that was said WAY back at the begining about neutrality. I think there are two ways to look at being neutral, and believe me this has been on both mine and my characters thoughts over the past month or so

Neutrality can be one of two things. The first is the idea that good and evil are equal choices, two sides of the same thing

The second is what caely believes, that there is a mixture out there. . .a grey inbetween that both good and evil touch. Knowing the difference and aknowledging that difference but not caring.

On the issue of Half Drow, and I have brought this up IC many times and to MANY people ((strangely enough it was ignored EVERY time *grins*)) the sins of the father do not pass to the child.

But this is not a world of sunshine and light all the time, racism abounds as it SHOULD, but sometimes a character doesnt have to be racist. . .especially when it gets them something that they want, most of the time we are willing to look past those little things to work together

somtimes not.

And thats ok. But in FK if every elf hated half drow then how would caely EVER be able to piss so many people off? *grins again*

Isnt it better to have fun RP than everyone have the same ideas about good and evil and race and such? As long as the player is willing to accept the IC consequences for their actions then they should be able to play the character as they see fit, imposing the characters morality and not society at large.

And sometimes those consequences can be HUGE *coughs*

Which is fun in its own way. I know that Kregor's player and I are having a blast.

Just some random info from me and I shall go back to hiding in my little corner now

~Caely

[Mele]

On the issue of Half Drow, and I have brought this up IC many times and to MANY people ((strangely enough it was ignored EVERY time *grins*)) the sins of the father do not pass to the child.

I think that this is a very OOC view point. I think we naturally feel this way, because OOC we would. Because it's how race is in our day. For example, my grandfather may hate a race because of a war he was in in his past, that horrible biased that makes him hate. Now I, of course, disagree. The past of both races involved in said war has nothing to do with the people of both races afterwards, and there is no reason for any members of either to hate eachother so. This is what comes natural to us, to feel this way. Because to us, there is no reason to blatently despise an entire race for the doings of some members of it.

Now IC, it is a much different time then now. I mean, we have people keeping slaves all over the place, the race thing is the same thing. Elves hate drow, and drow hate elves. Plain and simple. Centuries of war, of murder, there's the history there. Unless an elf was raised by humans, this hatred is something that should have been instilled in them from birth. Now, I can understand, every now and then, someone feeling the way stated above. It's not the half drows fault their parent did horrible things. But it seems like this has been the general view from everyone with half drow. Literally. I've yet to see a person be impolite to a half drow. And this theory that everyone is using IC makes me have to ask myself... How do you know their drow parent did anything bad themselves? You don't. So is this what's going to begin to come up for full blooded drow? Elf: I didn't see him in a surface raid so he's fine with me.

What I'm saying is, while it's logical to us oocly, for a half whatever, not to wear their parents hearts on their sleeves, it should not be logical to our elves(at the least) IC to ignore the drow blood in this being simply because it has human blood, too. Heck, sun elves don't even like -humans-. That's just, how it is, in the FK times, elves vs drow. While oocly it doesn't bother me too much to see an elf falling out of that with good RP, it does bother me a little bit to see an elf just walk by a half drow like they're just another being. I'm not saying hey stop and yell at them. But, I don't know, sneer at them? Certainly don't stop and have afternoon tea. Certainly, don't aid them in any way.

This is strictly just my opinion. But I, oocly, cannot see any logical IC reason that without very long, intent roleplay, an elf would befriend a half drow. With the acception of perhaps an evil elf. Even then, I feel pretty iffy on that. We're talking centuries upon centuries upon centuries of elves breeding and teaching to instill a pure hatred to drow. It's not a light thing, at all. I feel like it's been treated way way way too lightly in game.