Intresting thought....

Taeron · Post by **Taeron** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:46 pm

I was just thinking today...As a waterdeep watch member, should we give immunity to High Priests? Like shorter sentences and such? I was just wondering any thoughts or expansions on such? I mean if you look at today society there is diplomatic immunity.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:48 pm

I think not, since the game isnt based on today anyways. Other then that is should be based off of relations, like Icly you jailed me. Now I might go and tell everyone I know to wage war on the merchants of the city. But I wont because I dont have a long sentence.

Maybel · Post by **Maybel** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:24 am

No they don't presently... but now that you are in the lawmakers meeting... that is something you should discuss there

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:43 am

Also remember to title any thread to you add to the forums in a way that relates to the question also, make sure you place it in the correct coresponding forum.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:18 am

Sentences, no, imo. Should stay like everyone else. You only get jailed for majorish things.

But just for the record, as long as I've been here, the MS guard has been coded not to yell at HP's when they pray in MS.

Stings even oocly to be yelled at for casting a prayer once to heal someone or feed a starving man. ;)

Jaenoic · Post by **Jaenoic** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:00 am

This was an issue that was actually addressed ICly a while back. ICly some characters felts that HPs and guild heros were receiving special treatement by the watch. There was then an incident involving some HPs but you'll have to find out about that ICly by asking other watch members.

My opinion about this is that it is a purely IC issue. I feel that in a "real" fantasy world(Forgive the blatant contradiction) there will be favoritism, biases, discrimination, favors, ect. We're only human/elf/dwarf/halfling/gnome after all.

If you wish to RP your watch member as a staunch and strict defender of the rules, cheers to you! But short of breaking the rules if you wish to play a character who plays favorites and pulls in favors with his or her position, I say that's fine. Just be prepared for the IC consequences, should they come.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:58 am

I hardly thing it's a matter of favouritism to trust an HP to pray in the market... :x I think it's more of respect and trust.. But I'm no Watch member.

I hate that word, so much. ><

Jaenoic · Post by **Jaenoic** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:42 am

Ha ha, sorry Mele! You know I didn't mean it that way.

I think there can be... *ahem* The "F" word in this matter. For example, a nice high priest of Ilmater(wink wink) might get a lighter sentence because you're a follower of Torm, but you'll give an icky high priest of Loviatar the max sentence because, well let's face it, they're eeeeeevil.

But really I'm not talking so much about praying in the square, just an HP breaking or bending the rules in general.

Nicolya · Post by **Nicolya** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:45 am

I see it kind of like this. The HP of a faith is THE mortal mouth piece of their patron. This is the person that the god/goddess has trusted to lead the faith. Such a thing should come with some mystery, awe and wonderment. Any HP I think. While some of the goodly gods would be treated with respect in Waterdeep, the evil gods I think people would be really scared around or cautious. After all if you manage to blunder things with a HP, I would expect some sort of retribution, divine or near divine.
The same goes for leaders of famous "guilds" and groups I would say too. After all who would really try to arrest the Simbul, or Storm Silverhand? In Waterdeep that is.
This is where it becomes intersting IC and IG I think, for someone to try to uphold the laws, but also not cause any damage to relations to faiths that have temples in the Deep, or with any High Priest.
The Watch may not really be crazy that Fzoul is in Waterdeep, but as I see it at least, would they try to arrest a High Priest (and choosen but that might not be common knowledge) of Bane?

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:39 pm

While the concept of diplomatic immunity may be a contemporary thought, the concept of religious immunity is ages old. Centuries ago, in the dark and middle ages, even before in the ancient imperial times, those high in a faith were considered very much above the law. Even kings sometimes feared the power of their high priests, who could hold the power of damnation, excommunication, etc. over their heads.

Let's not forget the concept of Sanctuary, where authorities of a city could not even enter in to a place of worship in order to capture a wanted criminal, so long as the criminal sought sanctuary within the church, and the church granted it. The church was considered separate from the authority of the city or regime. And many a smart monarch or official, even if they had no respect for the faith that backed a church up, knew that storming into a church with the guards, or detaining a prominemt head of the church, could lead to mass revolt of the people of the city.

Now, in a lawful good city like Waterdeep, one might argue that wouldn't hold as true for some of the evil faiths... but even then that's subject to reason in light of the alter reality of Faerun: Would you jail a high priest of Umberlee, or even one of Her inner circle, in a port city, knowing that her wrath could sink every ship in the harbor? Or one of Auril's chosen knowing she could freeze it solid?

Yes, it's subjective, it's favoritist, it's the way politics really works. You think for one minute Lord Piergieron would even concede that a priest of Tyr could possibly commit a crime, let alone jail one if they did? It hypocritical and subjective, and it's politics. Even a Lawful Neutral official would wiegh the balance of punishing a specific person of a crime, versus the chaos and disorder that could result depending on the person being punished... think about that.

Jedan · Post by **Jedan** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:27 am

Well, honestly that's not a hard and fast rule. The Gods don't have totally free reign like that even in FR.

FR Books and adventures are full of servants/priests of deities being killed, imprisoned, tortured etc. and yet cities are not routinely wiped off the map, or whole regions devastated.

You could just as easily turn the arguments used around, and point out that the servants of good deities have a responsibility to see that law and order is maintained, and not embarass their God by flagrantly breaking them and then hiding behind their Holy Symbols. Most evil types should almost certainly avoid it in a major stronghold of good deities, after all, there are difficulties enough for such dark cults to operate in good areas, having a priest running around basically waving a sign reading "BANITES HERE! DOING BAD THINGS!" would likely hamper their efforts even more, and irritate the deity.

Now, as for applying this to FK. Probably regarding the limiting of casting in MS, HP's would probably be given some latitude. However, unless the person you are healing is literally going to die in the few steps it would take to get out of the center of the market, or the starving person is incapable of moving/also going to die imminently, it's probably not something that should be done routinely.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:53 am

In response to the MS, My understanding is it is OOC not IC reasons. But several IC things can back up the OOC reason.

The OOC reason: Its spammy. It was 5 years ago and still is now.

The IC reasons to back it up: Ever read that room desc? That room is busy and almost always packed regardless of how many PC's are in there. Therefore it is almost impossible to focus a spell or prayer in that area.

Code-wise I would move towards having it set so spells cannot be cast at all in there at all. Much like the dungeons and certain areas where the weave is damaged.

In response to those who break laws and hide behind their symbols:
What about those who make laws and then hide behind their symbols?

And finally, Taverns and potions exist for the fact that a spell will not always be accessible. Cant drag that near dead human? Find a potion or a person strong enough. Starving dwarf just passed out drunk? There's plenty of nearby taverns to get food from.