From All Thieves: We need help!

[Moloch]

The only aspect of combat I ever had a complaint about was the AC aspect, which has already been covered by Dalvyn. I -do- think something could be done about the rp skills, such as Disguise, and I have already exposed my feelings on that. I would be all for more traps, and more locked doors.

[Lathander]

How do disguise kits work?

Is there a chance for failure/success? Does the kit forceably disappear if the disguise fails (e.g. poorly applied)? Does it echo to others differently depending on the result? For example, another player seeing a successfully disguised rogue = "A tall lithe elf stands here," while an unsuccessfully disguised one would be seen as "A short human trying to look like an elf stand here?"

[Dugald]

I think rangers/druids getting disarm traps in the wilderness would be a great skill or overall character concept that would work perfectly with a wilderness prestige class (which in my opinion could be something as simple as just adding that skill to the character, as opposed to changing hp progression etc etc).

Currently, are no key locked boxes coded in the game? Is there precedent right now as to how they work?

[Rhytania]

As far as I can tell disguise kits are only for rp value. If they do give a boost its not anything that helps as I could easily use the skill once I trained it only a couple of times. Its also a succeed/fail on the skill. It echos if you fail or succeeed. Now each time a pc looks at you, theres a pass fail check the mud does, and if you pass the pc sees your disguise if you fail then he sees your true adjective. You can change anything you want in your desc except for sex and race.

[Moloch]

The downfall of the way disguise is set up is that the race still shows, no matter what you do...so if you were to disguise yourself as "A cloaked and hooded male halfdrow"...people more often than naught completely ignore the first part and just scream the halfdrow card.

[Zynarc]

Everyone can see through disguise with infra vision and x-ray vision.

[Moloch]

Superman?

[Tavik]

I don't know how are this would be to code so I don't know how feasible this would be, but I think it would help disguise to allow a minor race change i.e. a human could disguise as a halfelf, a halfdrow could disguise as an elf, etc. Chemicals can be added to the skin to change it's color, dye can be added to the hair for the same effect, face and ear shape can be altered (to some extent) by means of prothetics, weight is easily added (not subtracted) by wearing extra clothing, and height can be increased (not decreased) by wearing stilts. Put all these together, and you can easily justify disguising as a different race IC.

But again, I don't know if this is OOCly possible to code.

[Raona]

I can add traps in various areas. I've actually already done it here and there. But here's what I suspect is going to happen:

- Player A (not a rogue) goes there.
- Player A is hurt by the trap.

2 options here:

1) - Player A is badly hurt.
- Player A sits down and browses the web or chats while hit points go back up.
- Player A continues till the next trap.

2) - Player A is killed
- Player A quits
(I could give you plenty of examples of this: players who think they should be able to do everything on their own and quit, frustrated, when they notice that they die. Just typing this already brings 3 or 4 player names related to events that happened in the last 2 days.)

It's a hard thing to obtain a balance where people think about asking for help rather than (a) sleeping their wounds off or (b) getting frustrated with their many deaths.

Perhaps a good OOC-considerant compromise would be traps that "warn" you? Say a nigh-bottomless pit, that the first time you come to it, opens prematurely and you manage to step back just in time to avoid falling to certain death. Then an echo explaining that and saying "Perhaps you would de well to enlist the aid of a rogue before venturing any further in here?" If they plow on...OK, the next one kills them - they were warned?

I don't have nearly enough experience with the behind-the-scenes stuff to know if this is at all workable, but while I've sought rogue skills frequently in-game, it was based on IC belief rather than OOC knowledge that they were needed. If they are not code-required, I'd be all for making them such, at least in important spots, with the above proviso enacted to protect the bold.

[Aliatris]

I am against that class of OOC advice because it would lead to situations where the rogue will be called when the group knows that they will need help.

By not giving such information most groups would try to have a rogue within their ranks even in zones where is possible that no existed traps, because the
possibility of one trap exploding in their face by chance would scare enough to consider rogues regular members of their groups.

The idea would be adapt areas so the rogue do what is supposed to do and not be a bad fighter

[Dalvyn]

Randomizing traps, or randomizing where the traps are placed is not currently possible.

[Selveem]

Randomizing traps, or randomizing where the traps are placed is not currently possible.

See, this is why you don't tempt Dalvyn..

[Aliatris]

Here I found a very good article about rogue/thief functions...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... /20070126a

[Kirkus]

sorry if this seems obvious to everyone else, but do people with infravision automatically see through a disguise? Why would they?

[Kelemvor]

Why do people with infravision.. what? Might be more obvious if you finished the sentence I suspect.

[Kirkus]

sorry about that, its fixed now.

[Leveran]

Maybe some mobs, instead of dropping coin when they die, drop containers that are locked, trapped or both.

Bit of an old thread, but I was just browsing and wondering what ever became of this idea? One of the things I loved about my rogue on WoW was the ability to extort people into having me open their lock boxes for 2-3 plat for them to find some crappy random crafting material. The boxes could not only be trapped/locked, but their contents, with a series of if and rand{##} type lines could be randomized. This could in some ways emulate the 'lair' treasure portion of PnP, whilst also giving rogues something nifty to do.

[darcrod]

As I see the main problem of thieves in FK is that they are meant to be the stealth class that they aren't.

In my opinion what they need is;

-Hide/Spot system opposed to the current scenario with mobs that always spot the thief and modifying spells that shouldn't reveal a hidden character (I think that all those that do are druidic in nature and the odd only-domain spell)

-A skill to see whatever is in the next room (just like if you magic mirrored the room, for a brief instant you see the mobs and items on the ground, but you don't see either what are they are saying or smoting)

-Stealth kills; backstab/circle stab skills are a very decaffeinated version of its counterpart in D&D (sneak attack), nor you qualify always when you should do it, nor you do all the damage that should be expected.

I could think of a few suggestions more, but these are what would have an impact on making this class something much more enjoyable that it is currently.

[Alaudrien]

Currently traps are broken also so thats something else they can't do anymore either. Currently It's like we don't have a use as a thief other than stealing. But Also Mask has alot of code work and I am sure he has fixes in mind we just have to bare with it until he gets to them.

[Cret]

There are doors that can only be lock picked (no door bash or spell will open)... however any Gondar worth his weight in black powder can pick them as well...