additions to examin

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:10 am

Several times ive wanted to know just a little more about an item. Appraise, works well, however in some area's it dosent help.

Foremost, I would like to propose adding to examin the ability to see how big a container is (how much it will hold). Even such things as: a small amount; several pounds; enough materials to survive for several days alone. it holds sand, etc..

That way one could begin to see what packs might hold more and what less.

Secondly: an OOC message on specific items. Spell pouches and other things along this line:

Please only put spell materials in this pouch. Keys, Scrolls, potions, daggers, coin are not to be held in here. If such items are held in here, rummors hold it will explode on you, possibly killing those arround you and assuridly your self.

(well not thoese words but you get the point - these containers were coded special for specific tasks and should not be abused) Ive seen people constantly doing this, by accident or on purpose.

Another is with proper abilities in knowledge-areas or being a rogue gives a chance. A "you sense magical properties" echo. Finding out what the item does, if anything, should still be left to the identify spell of course.

This is a small bit quickly jotted down. But Ive heard others mention, at least in passing, these wishes.

Any more ideas?

Ceara · Post by **Ceara** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:11 am

Actually I was thinking the Lore skill would be nice for thieves. Pretty much equivalent to identify.

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:08 am

Ah, this is just for examine.

Perhaps a bump post in this topic would help for lore

http://www.gallwey.com/fk/board/viewtop ... light=lore

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:20 am

You know, I love examine. I use it all the time. The one, single thing that always bugged me was that it doesn't show the actual weight of the item. Occasionally, I find items that are misweighted (I used to have a list to turn in, but I'll have to look to see if I have it). This would help our builders as well as our players. I don't think it would be too hard to add it, really, but I'm not a coder.

Any coders have thoughts on the possibility of this?

Saradin · Post by **Saradin** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:23 am

Err, I thought examine does show the weight of items? Do you mean that the listed weight is incorrect?

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:19 am

I believe only some people get that info from EXAMINE. Not sure what it is tied to, a skill, feat, or class, perhaps? At any rate, I second the desire for more ready weight information. The only way for Raona to determine how heavy something is is to SCORE, DROP, SCORE, GET!

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:21 am

I think (I'm not 100% sure) that it is related to your Intelligence and/or Wisdom score(s).

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:55 pm

I think some ooc info might be good but how far do we draw the line. Yeah it migh be nice to actively start encouraging people not to abuse containers like storing a long sword in a wrist sheath, I actually saw this one quite recently, it was very impressive. I assumed the sword was one of the colapsable ones you can get a toy store.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:34 pm

What would really make more sense, is to code containers to work by size, and not by weight. Sort of like a fusion between NWN's container code, and FK's.

In NWN, granted, you get two dimensions to work with in a container, and it's still a bit beyond "realistic", but you can't go stashing a dozen spears in it, unless it's a bag of holding.

So instead of weight, the value of a container could be some sort of size units, and each item you carry would have a size unit value, like a pair of nut shells as a component might have a 1, while a broadsword would be like 100 times that.

The practicality of such a change though, would hinder in the fact that there are literally tens of thousands of objects in the game, that unless we could add this unit size automagically using a combination of their item type with their item size, it would be totally unfeasible.

Though, I've seen Mask work marvels, so...

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:44 pm

I can understand the use of using stats to determine exact weight, but, really - how much intelligence does one need to get at least an estimate of how much something weighs? I'm far from the epic 'stats' that characters of this game have. If anything, I would say if I was an actual character, I doubt I'd have too many stats above 13. Regardless of this, I know the difference between 1 pound and 2 pounds.

Is it possible that this sort of 'restriction' can be lifted? Or at least lowered to something an average person would have? Most commoners in TT do not have anything above 12 and they can count, add, weigh, read/write (aside from Barbarians, of course). I don't see any reason why the average character without a -int/wis modifier shouldn't be able to figure out how much something weighs.

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:04 pm

The parody on stats in real life aside...

the real life ability to determine the weight of a container will depend on:

the sum of your knowledge and previous dealings with such objects (that would be Wisdom); and

your ability to assess spatial dimensions and perform a mental comparison (and that would be Intelligence)

Remove weighing devices and other mechanical means of determining quantity, volume or weight and you'd be left only with those folks practised enough (read Wise enough) or smart enough (read Intelligent enough) to estimate those values for you.

In short, I think this mirrors real life very well already

Tortus · Post by **Tortus** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:46 pm

How about instead of giving them the exact value, letting the fighters have something like "$item feels quite heavy", or "$item is not very heavy at all. mm."?

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:44 pm

Well, I know my fighter in question has at least 13 int and 14 wis. How much int/wis should really be required to just be able to weigh out an item?

It just seems silly to me that a character - let's say a rogue - would need to have really high int and wis just to effectively realize the weight of an item.

What is the int and wis requirement to decipher the weight of an object?

Neriadin · Post by **Neriadin** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:14 pm

Perhaps, gentlemen, you will consider the quandry of a woman's purse. The contents surely take more volume than is indicated by the size of the purse. Getting thwapped in the head with a purse also indicates the weight of such items exceeds the capability a mere leather strap to support.

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:47 pm

Well, obviously women's purses are artifacts of a mystical sort which are by there very nature comprehensible only to girly women and the most sage of gay men. As I'm sure you've observed, any other individual becomes unaccountably nervous and jittery upon doing so much as holding a purse, even at the behest of its proper owner.

That said-- I don't know numbers, but I've got a genius and a sagacious character, and I don't recall seeing weights anywhere. The only time I have a problem with dropping and then resuming an object is when it's one of those sacks that rips to smithereens when you drop it.

The Lore ability suggested above tickles me pink. I the player take great joy out of knowing ridiculously obscure and useless things in the rare situations when such knowledge actually becomes of use, and would love playing a character who can do much the same thing. Perhaps Lore could be another use for Wisdom, in recalling the object or making the connection between a tale and the object in question-- or perhaps even Wisdom/Charisma, owing to the fact that most people prefer to tell their stories to likeable folks, so a high CHA character would have more stories to page through.