Teaching languages?

Tavik · Post by **Tavik** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:00 am

I've always found teaching RPs to be my favorite type of RPs. However, one thing I've never figured out how to do is how to RP teaching a language. With the code as it is, saying a word in the native language and then in the language to be taught doesn't really work as saying that same word again will appear as a different word to the student. It is all written in english, so you can't compare letters and characters... I'm really at a loss as to how to RP this. Does anyone have some ideas as to how to RP this effectively (or at all)? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:32 pm

There are many ways to rp teaching, engaging in smotes and discourse. Mostly you can use the teach command if you have sufficient skill in that language. This would be better than simply repeating a word over and over to a person until their level goes up. It would probably be best if you want to teach someone that you follow a basic formula. You explain the method of the work that would be the language in this case. Explain the ways and rp pronounciations and movements of the mouth. Then observe them doing so for example. It is a slow process but it is an rp process if you choose to accept it. Many languages are difficult or very scholarly. It takes repetion but even that should be rp'd, since it is being taught by player characters between each other. There are probably other methods but I would personally approach it this way.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:00 am

I may be mistaken, but I believe also written texts can serve to increase one's proficiency in a given language. For instance, write out an entire book in parchment form in the alternate language so the person can see the literal translation between the two. This should help as well.

Jaenoic · Post by **Jaenoic** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:07 am

With the code as it is, saying a word in the native language and then in the language to be taught doesn't really work as saying that same word again will appear as a different word to the student

I can attest to the fact that a teacher can say a word and you stare blankly at them, because the word could've been Greek to you for all you know.(Or Cambodian, for those of you studying Greek) The teacher will then say it another time and it "sounds different" because you were lazy and didn't study it to remember it.(read: the word is just as new and confusing as the first time you heard it) A lot of times also, depending on who's saying it, the word could sound different or be different all together.(Think of a battery-powered portable light-maker. To Americans, it's a flashlight. To British, it's a torch; for our American friends ask an Australian to say bauble, it's funny. For our Australian friends, ask an American how to say aluminium, it's funny)

Also, as a side note, spoken language and written language are completely seperate things.(Think that spoken language ALWAYS comes before written language and there are languages today that do not have writing systems) I have characters who RP being able to speak Elvish(a non-native language) but cannot read it because they were only taught to speak it. When learning any language, you never have to learn the written correspondant to it. In fact, sometimes it helps not to.(Think about how horribly, attrociously unphonetic the English writing system is; even the word unphonetic is unphonetic. Ironic, huh?) So when you teach a language you teach them the spoken part. It is my belief that teaching them the written part is a seperate RP all together, and does not require any skills or teaching commands.

As for suggestions on how to RP it, I can think of the biggest sticky situation when RPing with the language teaching code: when the student says something back and it's all garbled, even though it was a basic "hello." In all the languages of the world there are only X sounds that appear. This is because the human vocal and articulation system can only make those X sounds. No one language has all X sounds, they pick and choose which ones they use. For example, Japanese has 11 consonants and 5 vowels. English, on the other hand, uses 25 consonants and 19 vowels, obviously many of which are not present in the Japanese language. Therefore when a Japanese speaker attempts to pronounce an English word chalk full of sounds that Japanese simply doesn't have, it comes out sounding funny.(Think of a Japanese person saying the word Cinderella; there's no "see"[ci], only "shi"; no "e" in this sense, it turns into an "ah"; and no l's[they turn into r's]) So that could easily explain words coming out as Gheer when it should have been Hello.

Eh, sorry for the linguistical rant! Hope it helped though.

Tavik · Post by **Tavik** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:05 am

Thanks for all the advice! It does help quite a bit, but I think I do need to clarify. Basically, the way I interpret the helpfile for the "teach" command is: RP first, teach after. I wasn't really looking to teach by repitition, but to use the command. This being the case, I always like to RP actually teaching it before I give them the coded teaching. For example, if I were to teach someone brawling, I would first demonstrate a few stances, how to move to keep your oponent in front of you while maintaining balance and proper stance, and then a few throws and the correct form for them. After all that, I type teach X brawling. The problem I am coming across is that I'm not sure how to work the RP aspect before the teaching in regards to languages.

What has been presented here does help quite a bit and I thank those that contributed. Anyone else out there with other suggestions to share would be greatly appreciated.

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:59 am

Hmmm...I've taught horsemanship, but not a language...but here's how I'd take a crack at it!

A good way to start might be to discuss, in a mutually known language, the history of the language and the people who speak it...to give an underpinning of the language. Then maybe do one TEACH. Then discuss sentence structure and the phonetic differences that Jaenoic mentioned, and do another TEACH. Then perhaps start flipping between the languages, providing feedback in the common language, TEACHing as you go along. I find this more realistic than doing all the code teaching at once, at the end: it is also realistic if your RP is interrupted! (By a passing half-orc thinking you said something about his momma, or whatever!)

Ceara · Post by **Ceara** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:11 pm

What I did to teach somone common for the rp aspect, was show them a common object and then say the name for it. Like mug, or torch etc... and have them try to repeat it. Teach them common once, then go further with the lessons before teaching it again.

Hope that helps a bit

Ciara · Post by **Ciara** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:19 pm

Don't forget to teach them to conjugate! Grammar is key. *sage nod* Maybe for advanced lessons.

Or. . .there's the immersion method. Take them places where that is the basic language. And you also speak that language to them.. ask them simple questions and try and get them to respond in the new language.. a fun rp with all the frustration involved, I bet. I love learning languages so I definitely see some possibilities with this one.

Belose · Post by **Belose** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:44 pm

For example, Japanese has 11 consonants and 5 vowels. English, on the other hand, uses 25 consonants and 19 vowels, obviously many of which are not present in the Japanese language.

What? Is that American English? Ancient English? United Kingdom English? Australian English? I mean, here in Texas.. even though grade school was over 30 years ago, I'm pretty sure we had 26 letters in the alphabet, with 5 of them being vowels. Don't tell me they've changed things again!

This scares me. I know that what I was learning in 6th thru 8th grades they are teaching to 4th and 5th graders these days. Just watch one episode of Are you smarter than a 5th grader. It's a shocking thing to watch how much adults have forgotten since they were in school. Well, maybe they're teaching it to the second and third graders.. Can anyone say Generation gap(s)?

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:55 pm

Maybe they're talking consanant and vowel sounds, rather than actual letters. I know there are plenty more sounds created by the combination of vowels than by the combination of consonants.

Jaenoic · Post by **Jaenoic** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:58 am

I mean, here in Texas.. even though grade school was over 30 years ago, I'm pretty sure we had 26 letters in the alphabet, with 5 of them being vowels. Don't tell me they've changed things again!

Nope, same as it's been for hundreds of years! At least since the vowel shift. That's not important. Time for a linguistics lesson. =)

Say the word "cat." Now say the word "part." Do those a's sound the same? In the word show, what is the first sound? It's not an s, it's a "sh." That's a complete sound, because it's not s-h; when we write sh it combines to make its own discreet sound that has nothing to do with the sounds represented by the letters s or h. So in actuality, there are a lot more sounds in English than letters.

Heh, now that that rant is over(I apologize for it)... There are generally two ways to learn a new language. One is conscious, with a common language between teacher and student, having grammar, vocab, ect taught. The other is the one Ciara mentioned, just immersing yourself in the language. It can be very rough at first, but it will in the end result in you being more fluent and natural.

So my suggestion would be if there's no common language, do some smotes and explain basic words that the student would understand whether it comes out garbled or not. For example,

Jane raises a hand in greeting and says "Hello"(Hello)
Jane points at herself and says "Me" then points at you and says "You"
Jane runs in place and says "I am running."

And so on and so forth until you feel you've explained enough to warrant a teach command. From there, it's simply a matter of continuing more complex lessons and sentences, and making the student listen and try to form their own sentences based on things they've learned.

Hope that helps. =)

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:28 am

Jaenoic wrote:Say the word "cat." Now say the word "part." Do those a's sound the same?

Disclaimer for those from Texas...if the answer here is "yes", imagine some tight-collared east coast city slicker saying these same words, and you'll get Jaenoic's point.

p.s. We should all develop a good southern drawl and simplify American English phonetics!