Description Request

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:59 pm

I've noticed a pervasive phrase in descriptions lately, and maybe it's just me, but I've seen a lot of "XXX ...you have ever seen." In my opinion, this falls under the category of telling people what to think... which a description blunder. I think it might be a good general rule that the word "you" shouldn't show up in a description at all.

Have I got the right idea here, or am I off base? I don't want to go around asking people to change their descriptions if it's okay to do this.

Jaenoic · Post by **Jaenoic** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:11 pm

Sometimes I think it's ok to add "you" to a description. For example, in the sentence "you see before you a short man with berry blue hair" or something along those lines.

But you are correct, descriptions shouldn't be telling people how to perceive the character. It is fine to suggest a perception you may want through your description, for example if you want your person to be dark and evil you can give them dark, baggy eyes and a looming stature, but it is not appropriate to write "He is the most evilest man you have ever seen." If you really are the biggest, the most beautiful, the most whatever in the whole realms I'm sure that people will see you for what you are. No need to tell them.

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:13 pm

Most of the older players will have heard me say this before, but the safest rule of thumb is to ask yourself 'Would I look like this if I was dead?'

Your description should be purely what you look like; not how you feel, how you seem to feel or how someone else would feel if they saw you.

Maybel · Post by **Maybel** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:11 pm

I always liked that rule of thumb Kelemvor... I also do not really like the 'Standing before you is...' because... if dead... or... sitting... you wouldn't be seeing "someone standing before you"

[vent]
I also don't like the number in the description... "this person stands 5' 7".."
I never know someone's exact height... In cheracter creation... It is short, average, tall. Those additives should be in a description... Maybe have a "he looks well over six feet tall"

Not that big of a deal... It is just something that bugs me... (no where else to vent)
[/vent]

Lerytha · Post by **Lerytha** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:14 pm

I take your point, Maybel, but I like to put exact measurements in. It means that in RP, if your 5'8 character is next to a 5'9 character, both are "well over 5 feet" tall, but one is taller than the other. It is useful in roleplay, to know the exact height OOCly, even if it never features in its exact numbers, ICly.

Maybel · Post by **Maybel** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:21 pm

True enough Lerytha... that was why it was just my own rant.... Some people have use for it... I just never saw a need for it... Others might

Ceara · Post by **Ceara** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:18 pm

I have a lot of peeves about descriptions, especially when the person tells you what you think or notice or how you should feel about them. When I see that I tend to ignore the rest of the desc and not pay attention to them. I also hate when people use past tense in their descriptions.

It has been brow beaten into me (not so much from FK) that a description should only show what the person looks like and perhaps how they carry themselves. Not their personality, attitude or what any one else may think of them.

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:22 am

Ceara's beef is exactly the one I have, since that particular issue seems to specifically violate one of the description rules, albeit lightly.

Tavik · Post by **Tavik** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:43 am

I guess I've never really put a whole lot of thought into other's descriptions. I still read them and all, but I don't particularly analyze them. I read over it, and get a basic idea in my head of what that character looks like. If there is anything in there that violates the rules such as telling me what to think, I take it into account, but don't really abide by what they are telling me. I like that we are given the oportunity to describe what we want, but I suppose if this is an issue that is really bugging people, one solution would be to remove that customizable description and replace it with a standardized form that would be filled out at creation and would basically cover hair/eye color, height, weight, skin tone, distinguishing features, and maybe a section for additional notes. Again, I would particularly like this sort of system, but it seems like a lot of people here have some problems with the way things are done now and this would alleviate all of the issues raised here so far.

Another solution I just thought of would be to have descriptions approved just like names are before that character is allowed to leave the basement or whatever. After that, any changes made to the description would be made at that time, but also submitted for review and will get attention if something is done wrong. I realize this would put more of a work load on the IMMs, so maybe this could be done by IMMs AND Player Council members?

Just figured I'd throw out a few possible solutions to see what others thought.

Ceara · Post by **Ceara** » Mon May 14, 2007 12:03 pm

I don't like the generic description idea.

IMMs used to check descriptions, or at least that you had one before you were authorized. Of course this will slow down the auth process.
Part of the reason it's a peve to me, is because I used to have to deal with it as an Imm(not on fk), and would help people to write better descriptions that don't do these things. I'd teach them how and explain why, but here I don't think I can. I'm just another mortal, the person might take offense or complain that I'm trying to tell them what to do with their character. So I bite my tongue, hard sometimes.
I remember feeling the same way when I had a cloak in my description, but that was because I was cloaked and most people don't pay attention if you are just wearing it and think they can see all of you. So I described what she would look like in the cloak. I got the ok from imms before I did this though.
Perhaps an Imm could take over doing something like this if they see someone with a description that break/bends the rules? I'm not saying the person should be punished, but explain to them why they shouldn't do whatever it is they are doing in the description and teach them how to do it differently.

How to use other words than you.
For example instead of saying "Before you stands", which a lot of descriptions start out as, and when I was new mine did too. Well what if your character is laying down or dead?
Say something like "This tall half-elf blah blah blah".
Rather than saying "This is the most gorgeous man/woman you've seen". How do you know what I've seen? Just describe what they look like and let the person reading it decide.
And finally past tense. We're not reading a narrative about the character
the character is not in the past it is standing right here in front of me right now so rather than "her hair flowed past her shoulders like a cascading shimmering whatever". Say "her hair flows past her shoulders like a cascading shimmering whatever".

I learned how not to use "you" in a desription by having to rewrite my first area three times. So I'll use items as an example too, they won't be as good as usual though cos i'm not awake yet.
Rather than saying "You see a long red carpet and a wooden chair", well the character might be blind. Instead say "A long red carpet decorates the hallway. A wooden chair sits at the end of the carpet." Or smell, sounds the same thing applies, "you hear bells ringing in the distance" should be. "The sound of a bell rings in the distance". Again "You smell cooking meat", "the smell of cooking meat hangs in the air".

I'm not singling anyone out, I just pulled these examples out of the air, so if it sounds like a character I apologize.

I hope someone was able to take something positive from this post.

I also apologize for my horrid spelling and grammar this morning, like I said I'm not awake yet....

Neriadin · Post by **Neriadin** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:27 pm

I agree with the "pet peeves" listed so far and I hope none will take offence or umbrage to anything said here in the spirit of constructive criticism.

There are several descriptions out there that scream "help me" when I read them. Most have some pretty good, creative, ideas in them. Unfortunately, incorrect grammar and spelling distract the reader from the creativity and ruin an otherwise good description.

When I first started playing here, I helped a few people in the "newbie" temple with their descriptions. Although a few players didn't realize they could be much more eloquent in their descriptions and had no problem with adding more, most had problems with spelling and grammar. I only had one player that did not appreciate the assistance and gave me a bad attitude. Once I journeyed outward, I noticed the grammar problem had reached epidemic proportions. Rather than spending my time pointing out gramatical errors, I decided to spend my time playing the game instead.

Is it natural to assume that the quality of a player's description is an indicator of the quality of their RP? After all, the description is often the first thing that makes an impression on our fellow players. Remember those first few room descriptions that you read? Each of them gave you an impression of what the game would be like. You were impressed because they are well written, and you continued on because of that impression. (I realize there are some real "zingers" out there in the overland and elsewhere, but the first impression was made long before you saw those.) Getting back to the point, the description is an indicator of the care one puts into their character and RP which directly affects the initial desire or reluctance of others to RP with that player.

I realize, as some have pointed out elsewhere, that this is "only a game" and we are here to have fun. However, it is a game composed of words and how those words are used greatly affects the game as a whole.

Sindri · Post by **Sindri** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:40 am

Is it okay to include the character's voice (general pitch range and so on) in the description, or would this be handled better by smotes?

Ceara · Post by **Ceara** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:16 am

I'm not part of the FK staff so don't take my opinion as an ok, but personally I don't see a problem with saying something like he/she speaks with an x accent or has a high pitched voice or a deep voice etc..

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:08 am

I believe the way Kelemvor put it once was, your whole description should be able to apply whether you are standing in Market square, or lying dead in a ditch.

As a result, dscriptions of "as he/she moves" or "his/her voice sounds like" would not apply.

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:34 am

I don't see any problem with adding a description of your voice. I think everyone here is intelligent enough to know that if I'm lying dead in a ditch, they don't hear me speaking. I put it in most of my character descriptions because I think it's something people might like to know and would be able to observe under most normal circumstances.

Stayne · Post by **Stayne** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:51 am

I agree with Balek though I would take it one step further and encourage such minor additions as helpful roleplay use of descriptions. While "lying dead" is a great way to proof a description, if you take it to rigidly, you will end up with very bland descriptions.

This is a text based game and descripitions are meant to aid our roleplay, not force us to constantly use certain smotes to remind people of what traits our charecter exhibits. So my charecter has a high pitched voice. In fact its grating to hear. I should be able to add a line in my description to let people know that my voice when speaking is such. This saves me having to constantly roleplay a high pitched voice, thus greatly speeding things up. Other minor examples might include the way someone carries themselves. People often exude a certain "air", sometimes so much so that they even appear that way when dead!

While people should steer clear of obvious ones like stating that they are "Charming" or has "Eyes that make you think of cold winter nights", a little flexability, help and encouragement and most of all - common sense, can make RP better and easier.

S.

Neriadin · Post by **Neriadin** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:38 am

Perhaps Lord K would like to see us all just play dead....then we'd all be in his realm, right? Hmmmm...is that truth or irony?

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:47 am

Now let's not start setting everything I say into stone...

As with all examples, mine does not hold true for every little nuance and yes, to just describe a bunch of physical characteristics might become quite bland.

I personally have no problem with 'When he speaks it sounds like a scolded cat fleeing across a tin roof'... because if you are dead in a ditch you are not speaking and folk can safely ignore that.

I'd be more wary of using 'he exudes an air of menace' or similar, because what one person may find menacing another will think laughable.

Maybel · Post by **Maybel** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:06 pm

My next character I make will speak like a scolded cat fleeing across a tin roof... Look out for him...

Unless... it's patented...

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Tue May 15, 2007 7:50 pm

If I remember correctly the only imm who checked descriptions was Oghma when he was bored. He used to stalk the newbie grounds helping people with adjectives and descriptions and giving tips to people.