[skill] Bluff for rogues

[Cret]

While not the best name for the skill, its the quickest i could come up with.

Basicly this skill would alow rogues to chance a bluff your way into a guild and purchase things sold within.

Bingles is a cut purse, using his disguise skill he walks into the Zk Fighters guild and purchases some of their fine leather armor.. etc.

[Glim]

Sorry... I dont think I get what you mean...

A skill so you can go into a guild that you aren't allowed into just to buy stuff?

[Tobias]

He means basically its a combination of disguise and suave skill to infiltrate an orginazation and then a check to try and bluff the vendor's to sell rather rare and exclusive things. It's neat idea but certain guilds like harpers zhentarim and other such things would be to heavily protected with magic I'd think

[Kregor]

I can see good uses for a bluff skill, regardless, that would be very much like D20:

1) Require bluffing to hide in plain sight, ie, when anyone else but your party members are in the same room. It would help make hide less like insta invis too A successful bluff on everyone in the room would mean the thief could hide with others there, otherwise, you'd have to be in a room with only party members without the skill.

2) Use it to support a FEINT command to take an opponent off guard during a fight, this means a one-round AC penalty, in simplest terms.

[Selveem]

Good tie-in Kregor. I think this sounds like a good idea. Except, of course, things like the aforementioned specific guilds like Harpers, Zhent, etc.

It would be especially helpful for those poor rogues who get by just by saying they're wizards and the like to be able to enter.

[Oghma]

Any kind of skill like Bluff, which in my opinion is very interesting and could work in favour of certain stats and guilds, should be limited by the following:

Wisdom and intellect should overcome the sweet and sultry words of a bard or rogue.

Magic and Faith power should allow one to see through the bluffery of a thief.

Shrewdness and cleverness should trump bluffing...as they bluffer would be seen through.

Common clay mobiles could be tricked easily by bluff.

What I do not like though is using bluff to gain guild items, but I am confident that in certain situations a rogue could be thwarted through other ic means. What I would most like to see if this skill carries through to the mud is an ooc clause in effect much like request and demand: You cannot sell what you bluff into your possession or give it away to other characters without receiving ooc punishment in line with losing the skill or a strike.

[Ceara]

I agree with oghma on this one too. Though Spot would be good to counter bluff as well.

Also you should think about the ic consequences of buying other guild items. Especially with some evil guilds. I know some ZK fighters that if you are wearing their guild armour and aren't part of their guild they will demand it back and kill you if you don't return it. It is the same way with some faiths.

I think though that bluff could possibly improve haggle as well. Typically bluff is used to convince people to give information or to do something for you rather than for buying things.

[Isolrem]

if implemented, definitely another logged skill

[Mele]

I feel like this skill would take a lot away from the point of joining specific guilds. IE: There's several enchanters guilds. I only join one. I feel cool because I'm in it. I have pretty clothes made there. Rogue Bob comes along, wearing my same stuff. Okay, no big. Warrior George says hey, bob, want to bluff your way into that place and get me that outfit dude? Priestess Pam sees George wearing it, asks George who got it, he directs her to Bob, Bob gets it for her. So on, so forth.

[Kregor]

When builders put in intercept progs on their mobiles in an area, be it to restrict all but X persons from going north into the area, or all but X persons being able to purchase goods, etc; it is done with the specific purpose of limiting that area, those goods, etc to the persons the builder intends to be able to have access. It is not meant to be a challenge to get around, it's a plain and simple "you don't belong here."

It becomes doubly a problem in the fact that the way skills work here in FK, is that eventually you will be a GM in everything you can train. That means, eventually, people can level up their way into getting anywhere they want, purchasing anything they want, no failure, no exceptions. At that point, the whole purpose of having intercepts on mobiles in areas becomes totally irrelevant.

If you don't belong in Tangled Trees, for example, you just don't belong... just because you're GM in a bluff skill doesn't mean if you're an evil Cyrist human thief that you should be able to get past the guards, nor buy their goods in the shops.

[Mele]

So then what is the point of the skill if it would not work on guilds? I'm confused now.

[Alvirin]

In D&D bluff aside for bluffing others can be used to feint in combat, hiding while people is aware of you and delivering secret messages.

I'm not sure of it but I suppose that by influencing mobs, they can freely give
you guild/faith specific items that most of the times can be stealed as well.

[Emrys]

Just to take this idea to its logical conclusion...

If I have the Bluff skill, sooner or later I will insist that I should have a chance of convincing the guards not to arrest me for crimes committed. After all, it's all a misunderstanding and I am actually innocent.

[Isolrem]

balance is less of a concern in classic D&D, because as the PCs advance their NPCs enemies will simply rise with them into ever escalating levels of imba-ness.
in FK you need to worry how rogues with this skill can exploit and unbalance the game.