PG-13 Clarification and Other Stories

[Belose]

Oh, geez...not another let's make everything equal argument....LIFE is not equal.. period...I don't think even CLONES could be equal.. they each experience different things in a different way as time goes by..but on the issues of same sex stuff and making out in private? I want to be a fly on the wall when Caelyvar and Maybel are alone....

[Balek]

Oh, geez...not another let's make everything equal argument....LIFE is not equal.. period

This is probably the worst argument I've ever heard. Life isn't always equal? I can buy that, but life isn't always equal because there are factors that are beyond our control. Here we have a situation that is entirely within our control. Any refusal to strive for equality in this situation is not simply ceding to the fact that there are inherent inequities in life, but rather a case of willfully targeting a specific group for discrimination.

[Oghma]

Code: Select all

Forgotten Kingdoms PG13 Policy
==============================
A PG-13 rating means this game should be suitable for those aged 13 or over
but parental guidance is required for those under 13. Parents of
under-teenage children are encouraged to investigate the game and determine
for themselves the suitability of its content in relation to their beliefs of
the environments their children should be exposed to. 

In the words of the MPAA, PG-13 is a rating which "leaps beyond the
boundaries of the PG rating in theme, violence, nudity, sensuality, language,
or other contents, but does not quite fit within the restricted R category." 

In this game this means that mild sexual content or roleplays are allowed,
which may include actual or implied sexual relationships between women and
between men. Overt displays of sexual activity are, however, forbidden. 

There may be mild and infrequent use of profanities. There should be NO
references to drug use - if any such references are encountered you should
bring this to the attention of an administrator immediately. 

There may be substantial and persistent violence, concomitant with potraying
a heroic character in a fantasy world. 

There are references and the use of alcohol which is condoned in the course
of roleplaying. This is not an excuse to break any other rules listed, and
thereby profess it was due to roleplaying being intoxicated. 

By declaring our game to be rated PG13 we are not acting as a surrogate
parent, but are attempting to give advance warning of the nature of the
content you may be exposed to whilst playing this game, in order that you or
your parents can form their own judgements. We appreciate that in this
pluralistic society the question what is 'too much?' is a controversial one.
However, we have tried our best to convey a rating which we hope parents
would find useful and mostly accurate.

Code: Select all

Fade to Black
=============
This term refers to how movies that are geared to a general audience handle
love scenes and the like. For instance, the movie characters are kissing with
what seems to be the intent to go to bed to have intercourse. Instead of
showing the act, the scene will fade away leaving the viewer with the
knowledge that yes the movie characters have gone to bed together. Often the
camera comes back to show them in bed in the morning waking up, or having
breakfast or the like. 

How this relates to Forgotten Kingdoms is when your characters are in a
romantic relationship we expect you to kiss each other good night, log off
and when you log back in the assumption can be then made that you have done
the deed. We do this because you cannot know what the age is of the player on
the other side of the monitor, or who might walk in. We have many young teens
who play our game and we wish to make this an enviroment that their parents
can be have them play in without any worries.

Code: Select all

Sexual Behaviour
================
Many of the players on Forgotten Kingdoms are under the age of 18 and
considered minors in many countries around the world. In order to protect
them, we have deemed that our game should be suitable for young, underage
players.

This means that there is to be no OVERT sexual roleplay.  We do not want any 
player made to feel uncomfortable and we want parents of minors to be 
confident in knowing that their child is safe.

At any time that sexual relations are called for you are expected to 
'fade to black.' This is an assumption that the act occurred without the  
necessity of roleplaying it out. This protects admin and players in the case 
that someone is under age.

Overt sexual roleplay includes such things as kissing in public in a sexual 
way. Anything that is considered unacceptable in the normal workplace can be 
considered unacceptable in public on Forgotten Kingdoms.

FINAL NOTE: We are not the morality police. However we do maintain 
the right to guide this game in the manner in which we would like 
to see it and at the same time protect our players and the quality 
of roleplay which goes on here. Your presence here is a privilege, not a 
right. Please keep this in mind as you roleplay.

Code: Select all

Same sex relationships
======================
The staff of Forgotten Kingdoms acknowledges that there are a wide variety of
alternative lifestyles in the world and makes no judgement moral or
otherwise on those lifestyles, but as Forgotten Kingdoms is a family oriented
game, the staff has a certain obligation to protect the minors that play here
and allow parents a reasonable certainty that their children are not exposed
to any situation that might make them uncomfortable. 

Due to these obligations the staff has deemed that same sex relationships are
acceptable roleplay on Forgotten Kingdoms providing they are roleplayed
within the constraints outlined in help sex. We ask that like any
relationship in Forgotten Kingdoms that participants in a same sex
relationship be discrete and present the relationship in a non-overt manner.

These helpfiles are but a few that outline our policies in effect. All of them are highly detailed and made for specific reasons. I've respected this game for years for the predominance of control and the fact that almost any age group could play here without being exposed to themes that were inappropriate for that age group. Some things sneak through, but for the most part we have maintained a proper environment. I am truly against seeing such policies reduced. I have no issue with relationships as it is the choice of the people and a game though, I am just more for behavior to be in line with policies.

[Kirkus]

I thought Horace brought up an interesting point in his first post on page 1. It was the parts about different socities viewing sexual orientation in different ways. I think it might be nice if once we have those other cities they can reflect those differences... in a mature way of course. I wouldn't want Chesenta to be rediculous 'gay' town. Sorry for being so wrong in a pc sense.

My point, if this is to become a hot button issue ingame with many players wanting to experience rping same sex relationships lets deal with it in game. Lets get Chesenta and let it be the swinging town of same sex stuff. In a mature way of course.

[Rhiel]

And Oghma has spoken. Silence, mortals.

[Mele]

That's neither funny nor appropriate. It's a discussion like all things on the forums. We have a lot of new players lately, who would easily be put off by that. People have discussed several topics that had in game layouts already written.

Many of the players on Forgotten Kingdoms are under the age of 18 and
considered minors in many countries around the world. In order to protect
them, we have deemed that our game should be suitable for young, underage
players.

That statement is no longer true. I'm not like fighting for the right for people to have in depth sexual actions, nor do I wish to participate in such personally. I'm only saying - If people WANT to do so, in private rooms, then whatever. There's a million worse things they can do to hurt FK. And since when we were babysitters? The mud club is gone now, nothing will come down on the teacher who hosted it. Parents need to raise their own kids. Ten thousand other muds that have EXPLICIT things going on, and we're worried about if a sixteen your old has to see a man kiss a man? There are a lot more things seen in movies that people have gotten scolded for in FK. It's odd to me that the most strict policy is the sex policy.

Everyone keeps talking about how it's a game, it should be fun and relaxing. How is it fun if you're playing a man who likes men, but you have to worry about your actions because one person in the room may oocly be offended. If one out of five people are offended, they should feel free to remove themselves and rp elsewhere. As if gay couples don't have a hard enough time irl. It makes me crazy that people would try to push these issues in a game they call fun and relaxing.

I JUST woke up, so pardon any seemingly sour notes there.

[Caelyvar]

Man I want to have just woken up

Honestly, I would only like the following consideration. That gay and lesbian couples would have the same rights and privilages in FK as straight couples

If a straight couple can hold hands in MS and kiss lightly on the cheek, then I am afraid my gay character is going to do so as well. All I want is the same liberty. And to be honest, Caelyvar has done so in the past and will continue to do so.

In the matter of ratings, I dont actually care what the rating of the mud is. I just want to be treated the same, no better no worse. On that note I would also like to see handfasting ceremonies opened up to same sex couples. But this is an entirely different topic.

Whatever the rating is, it should be the same for all characters.

[Horace]

I don't think anyone said people can't play same sex relationships...just that since it's obviously more of an explosive subject, discretion should be a higher priority.

It's just common sense...and that's without going into the fact forgotten realms as a setting wasn't created to deal with these issues. You will never find a WotC or TSR product that addresses this, ever. So if it's going to exist, have it exist in a fashion where imm's and admins don't need to make arbitrary rulings on a subject that was never meant to be addressed by the setting in the first place.

------------

"Why are you treating me this way, no one in silverymoon treated me like this."

"Yeah, well I'm from silverymoon, and I know everyone treated people like you this way."

"ooc - seriously, silverymoon is a good aligned town - they'd be receptive to these relationships"

"ooc - you're right, they're good aligned, which is exactly why they aren't receptive"

------------

There isn't a right answer. That's just one situation...for every instance involving this topic, there isn't a right or wrong answer. Which is worse, because there isn't an answer at all. And when things in a game don't have an answer, or even the slightest hint of any direction on the subject, it shouldn't have a spotlight on it. Once the spotlight falls on it, every player creates their own answer to fill that void - and that's bad.

Enjoy your character, if you want to play a gay character, no one is going to stop you - everyone wants everybody to enjoy the game. Just use common sense discretion - I'm absolutely positive all the gay players and gay supporters understand how inflammatory some actions can be...why open the door for these things? I don't think it's a problem now, at all. But I think it will be if things become more lax.

I love you
Tyson

[Rhiel]

Dearest Mele, I was only kidding. No offense intended. I was simply wondering if/when the imms would lay down the law.

EDIT: I still stand by what I said. It's not a problem, nor should it EVER be. Common courteousy and mutual respect go a long way in issues like this.

I think it unfair, however, Mele, that if one action offends Party X, which represents the casual gamer pair/group, then that means Party X must excuse themselves. Same goes for Party Y. If Party Y wishes to RP a certain socially problematic persona, they are not discouraged. They simply must take into account human reaction and what that means. I only opine that it's just simpler not to bother in a game.

Sheesh, just do away with relationships all together, if people want to throw a fit about it. That's a simple solution. Certainly relationships ARE addressed in FR (first that pop into mind are the Wulfgar/Drizzt/Cattie-Brie soap-opera ) but they are more or less used as story driving plot devices. Shouldn't it be much the same here? A means to an end? If you roll a character JUST to explore such an avenue, perhaps your personal needs are best met elsewhere? This is, bottom line after all, a game.

[Oghma]

i'm not here to lay down any law or curtail the discussion. I chose to show the current helpfiles featured in game that outline the current policy. I am not opposed to changes, as such was or has been explored by the Mortal Council and is most likely still being explored. I do however know as a fact that despite the claims that there are no young players anymore, there are in fact players that are young, you just may not know it or they may not inform you. I like to be safer than sorry if that is any given ideal. Even if the mud club is gone I would rather not dismiss the current policies that exists. I will also reiterate that same sex relationships are permitted as long as they are roleplayed within the constraints outlined in help sex. That to me seems very reasonable though I am open to opinions and ideas expressed here as much as anyone.

Same sex relationships
======================
The staff of Forgotten Kingdoms acknowledges that there are a wide variety of
alternative lifestyles in the world and makes no judgement moral or
otherwise on those lifestyles, but as Forgotten Kingdoms is a family oriented
game, the staff has a certain obligation to protect the minors that play here
and allow parents a reasonable certainty that their children are not exposed
to any situation that might make them uncomfortable.

Due to these obligations the staff has deemed that same sex relationships are
acceptable roleplay on Forgotten Kingdoms providing they are roleplayed
within the constraints outlined in help sex. We ask that like any
relationship in Forgotten Kingdoms that participants in a same sex
relationship be discrete and present the relationship in a non-overt manner

I think 'non-overt' applies to any rp in regards to any relationship.

And Rheil, I know you have been gone from the forums for a while, but immortals and admins are currently doing their best not to curtail discussion here. If I posted existing helpfiles or commented on their validity it is only to provide current coxtext keeping in line with policies.

[Rhiel]

Fair enough. I will refrain from commenting further. I've said my piece, I have nothing more to add. I'm certainly not trying to be problematic or offensive or unruly. Apologies if any of the aforementioned apply.

[Oghma]

You are free to post your opinions here.

[Rhiel]

I appreciate that. There were times before when I played when I did not believe that. Now I do. There's been a dramatic overhaul on how things are done, and I am very grateful.

However, as I said, I've said all I need to, and as my mother always used to say "If you can't say nice things, SHUT UP!" So, I will take that path now

[Ceara]

My memory is a bit foggy but I'm pretty sure the PG-13 rule was in before the mud club came to the game. There are still young players I recently met one that is fairly young. I'm finding myself wondering who is on the other end and if they are of age or not, and in case they aren't not wanting to do anything other than holding hands or a kiss on the cheek etc...
They can also always lie about their age, how do we know? How many teenagers don't say they are older when they want something only people of an older age group can have?

Now on the flip side I've always been an advocate to do away with the pg-13 rule in regards to intimacy. However I do believe that it should be done behind closed and or locked doors. There are few in game however.

I think the kissing and holding hands only is even stricter than pg-13 ever was, I know I've seen a lot more in G and PG-13 movies.
However, as a parent I tend not to allow my children to watch said scenes. I'm just glad that someone finally made a definite rule to lay out where that line is because for years I had to guess.

[Lathander]

Though you are all free to discuss this issue, I don't see the need for a discussion. If there is inappropriate activity going on that you feel the need to complain about, send it to complaints. Personally, I haven't seen anything that warrants imm intervention in a long time, including what happens in those "private" inn rooms. What!?! You mean you imms watch what we do in there!?! Uh, yeah, we watch everywhere, it's part of the job. It used to be a bigger problem than it is now.

Why make an issue out of something that is working just fine? There are bigger fish to fry right now I think. Then again, SOMETIMES when things like this get discussed, PCs start choosing to test the limits.

My two cents. OK, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[Kregor]

What!?! You mean you imms watch what we do in there!?! Uh, yeah, we watch everywhere, it's part of the job.

Should we be selling popcorn in the pantheon?

*cackles*

There would be the perfect rule: "Don't do anything you wouldn't want shown on the Pantheon big screen."

[Rhiel]

*snicker*

[Dapher]

My turn to lend my small voice in this large pond. The rules have been here since the beginning, so why change them now? Ok, the female, femal, and male male relationships I do not see a problem with it. Though what you do in private, and all the X rated things. Why is there a need for it? This is a comforitable environment, and a place that I can go and get away from all that stuff. I hear, and see things all day long at school, and I do not want to get on the computer, and have to deal with it. Go ahead, and have same sex realtionships, just keep it PG rated.

Sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intention. I just like the comforitable, environment

[Laurie]

The PG 13 rule was there far before the Mud Club, and put there for a good reason. Not only does it prevent players from doing sexual deeds in their own private room with perhaps a much younger player that has no idea whats happening, it also prevents players from using vulgar language. In my opinion, this rule was not only put there for players younger then 18 but also to make FK look more respectable. Joining a game that has people swearing and open sex doesn't make for a game's good reputation. Also why allow players to have sex now when they have been getting along so far without it.

[Larethiel]

If people aren't allowed to have a wee bit privacy, where do the baby-mobs come from?