levels below ten

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:12 am

I hope you didnt feel my post to be negative to yours, I was meerly stating my opinion about your suggestions. I am actually very happy to the fact that you posted suggestions. For everyone to just say hey this sucks leveling take to long is unhelpful. The best way to solve a problem to to suggest a fix, not complain about the issue.

Rhiel · Post by **Rhiel** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:38 am

True true, Japcil. I'm not qualified enough to offer any suggestions, being a mere gamer with NO knowledge whatsoever of coding or any of that stuff. I do well just to know the MUD's commands.

How can a person such as me offer any valid solutions when I have no background in coding? Is it possible? I can offer a wide array of suggestions, but I would not want to if I am unaware of the limitations that the system poses. It creates more of a problem if useless suggestions are postulated. Am I way off on that one?

That question is not hypothetical, I am asking in earnest. I tend to think that I may not be the only person who is ignorant of such things, simply because it *is* obscure and complex.

(On a side note, if I *am* the only such person, then I've made an ass of myself on a wholesale level, and will be REALLY emberassed. lol)

I am grateful for those of you who know these things, and make the FK world go round. I have ideas, but I am unsure as to how to go about expressing them in terms of the MUD's limitations and so forth.

I post this in hopes that maybe others like me may feel represented. I'm sure there are people who play who have LOTS of good ideas which are never seen or heard because of a lack of understanding on our parts which makes it VERY unwieldy to express an idea in terms which are applicable to the status quo.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:47 am

The best part of coding is that in some languages it is almost like writing a sentence. Ok a slight exaggeration but its close sometimes. Suggestions for a game like FK dont need to be backed by code. You could say I think we should extend the newbie temples to level 15 or restrict to level 5. none of that involves code. None of Scylere's suggestions required a knowledge of code either just the courage to put them out there. Some people fear revealing their suggestions because they are afraid of being wrong or suggesting something that isnt valid and looking ignorant. But here at FK no one does that. We all respect eachother. Sometimes comments may seem harsh but thats because we cant alwasy understand what another person is meaning because after all we are typing our words not saying them with different tones of voice. Thats why many people use emoticons to place across their tone of voice when they make certain comments. There is no such thing as a useless suggestion, becuase either way, your adding to the discussion and providing input that is valuable, something you say might not work but someone else could develop an even better suggestion off of your original.

Rhiel · Post by **Rhiel** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:17 am

Good point. I guess I do suffer from a healthy dose of "rejection fear." I would *still* love to learn about the coding side of things though.

Alvirin · Post by **Alvirin** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:50 pm

This is my crazy idea:

We play with two different values oldExp and currentExp, currentExp is the accumulated experience, oldExp is the experience that the character had some determined RL time ago.

By comparing oldExp with currentExp we know the amount of xp that the character has earned in the lapse of time determined, if there is little difference the rate at which the character earns xp is faster, if there is a big difference the rate at which the character earns xp is slower.

Rhiel · Post by **Rhiel** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:07 pm

That's not actually a bad idea. It maybe could use some tweaking, but I think the idea has merit and is worth exploration.

My own little piece.

There is a "mainstream" MMORPG which attracts millions of followers (which shall remain nameless) that sometimes doesn't have bad ideas. One of those "not-so-bad" ideas is Rest XP. The basic idea is: Some gamers are casual, some are hardcore. The "casual" gamer, who pays the same premium as the hardcore player, should not be punished for inability to play as often.

To make <insert game here> more accessible to ALL styles of players (and in FK this would be "low grind/high RP" vs "High grind/medium RP" [since no person should EVER /not/ RP in this game]) there is a "Rest XP" system which does not penalize players who choose NOT to hack n' slash often, or are unable to log on as often.

When a character is NOT logged in, they gain experience (VERY slowly) at a predetermined rate, which maxes out after a set span of time. This system activates whenever a PC is logged out for <x> amount of time. If they are at an inn when they log out, the XP accumulated grows faster, if they are in wilderness, it accumulates slowly.

It's not plagiarism, it's simply taking a good idea and applying it to another system. Could it work?

Saradin · Post by **Saradin** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:53 pm

Lathander wrote: I really don't like L50 in 50 hours and disagree with you that it would be good to have that. I do agree (based on the many many posts about the current difficulties) that it is now too slow. Let's find a middle ground.

I don't think he's saying that l50 in 50 hour twinks are "good" so much as it is preferable to let them do so and have them dealt with on an individual basis by the staff while leaving everyone else free to mix their RP and levelling as they see fit, rather than punish everyone by implementing a stopgap measure aimed at a handful of people.

Arothian · Post by **Arothian** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:45 pm

Rhiel wrote:That's not actually a bad idea. It maybe could use some tweaking, but I think the idea has merit and is worth exploration.

My own little piece.

There is a "mainstream" MMORPG which attracts millions of followers (which shall remain nameless) that sometimes doesn't have bad ideas. One of those "not-so-bad" ideas is Rest XP. The basic idea is: Some gamers are casual, some are hardcore. The "casual" gamer, who pays the same premium as the hardcore player, should not be punished for inability to play as often.

To make <insert game here> more accessible to ALL styles of players (and in FK this would be "low grind/high RP" vs "High grind/medium RP" [since no person should EVER /not/ RP in this game]) there is a "Rest XP" system which does not penalize players who choose NOT to hack n' slash often, or are unable to log on as often.

When a character is NOT logged in, they gain experience (VERY slowly) at a predetermined rate, which maxes out after a set span of time. This system activates whenever a PC is logged out for <x> amount of time. If they are at an inn when they log out, the XP accumulated grows faster, if they are in wilderness, it accumulates slowly.

It's not plagiarism, it's simply taking a good idea and applying it to another system. Could it work?

This... World you speak of...
Does it involve the crafting of wars?

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:08 am

Saradin wrote:
Lathander wrote: I really don't like L50 in 50 hours and disagree with you that it would be good to have that. I do agree (based on the many many posts about the current difficulties) that it is now too slow. Let's find a middle ground.
I don't think he's saying that l50 in 50 hour twinks are "good" so much as it is preferable to let them do so and have them dealt with on an individual basis by the staff while leaving everyone else free to mix their RP and levelling as they see fit, rather than punish everyone by implementing a stopgap measure aimed at a handful of people.

Yes, in effect, that is what I am saying. I do not say that 50 in 50 is good. In my opinion, it's reprehensible. But I am also saying there is no equitable way to codally restrict those sort of players equitably to keep occasional gamers from suffering the handicap even worse in any way that won't be somehow breakable or abuse-able. Call me a cynic; I work in an industry where computer technology is simply a tool for human expression and creativity, not a potential substitute for human intelligence and reason, and I am of the camp that believes that it never will be.

This is where human reason and expression comes in. That if an imm sees a 50 hour character at level 50, with a bunch of GM skills, and no RP investment, said character should be punished by direct imm intervention. There IS a set of commands to reset levels, skills, favor, ANYTHING you could possibly twink down all the way from a little to all of it. I've seen players who were punished before for doing things like spamming steal/give/steal/give to a mobile, and other stuff that is not just twinking but borders on antisocial. My logic is that if it's the only thing that a player comes here for, to power up and pwn, and they are punished once or twice, they will either reform, or leave. And for the ones who leave instead of reform, the MUD is a better place without them, IMO.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:59 am

Took some time to dust off one of my low levels over the last few days to get first hand experience on the difficulty of the leveling curve.

Results:

5 gains in meditation
4 gains in chill touch
2 gains in magic missiles
3 gains in levitation
5 gains in fly
1 in bulls strength
3 in trollish vigor
2 in armor
....and half way to his next level. (Note he is below 15).

All for ensuring we don't have maxed level toons all around the world too fast, but at this rate this character will GM all his skills/spells, most he trained only to inept from trainers to save experience, well before he reaches 30 let alone 50...and that doesn't seem right to me. Thats a bad thing coming from a guy who enjoys burning the night away mining!

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:19 am

It plateaus off around journeyman, most skills/spells you'd have to dedicate 100 hours (with genius INT) of solely trying to train them to get from journeyman to grand master...all dependent on the type of skill or spell, though i fully suspect that some would cost 5,000 platinum on components alone to GM. You won't gm all your stuff by 30, unless you go out of your way to.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:12 pm

Horace wrote:It plateaus off around journeyman, most skills/spells you'd have to dedicate 100 hours (with genius INT) of solely trying to train them to get from journeyman to grand master...all dependent on the type of skill or spell, though i fully suspect that some would cost 5,000 platinum on components alone to GM. You won't gm all your stuff by 30, unless you go out of your way to.

Several of the gains were after journeyman, (think 4 all together, can't remember) just fyi. *shrug*

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:06 pm

Is there anything going on with the levels 1-10 ?

After 40 hours, and hundreds of dummies and various sewer and small mobiles I have a warrior who is still only level 8, at very best.

Begining from a hometown far from where most characters loiter, I sat around the hometown a while before finally decided to treck out towards the Waterdeep areas. Got to finally meet people etc. Got a little cocky, took on a mobile too tough. Lost my arm, and called for help. At my level, one bleed to -30%- of my health, and killed me.

Now... because I'm under level 10, this death slammed me all the way back across the realms. With no amulet to communicate to my called help. No light to see. No weapon to kill. No clothing. Easy enough to go into the newbie temple to kill a dummy? Not so much. These dummies are vicious and I can't land a single blow with a fist. Okay, so, make the walk back naked, and hope I bump into a: the person I called or b: my body. Get out of the area, and immediately, an agressive mobile. Now I'm sitting here with -9% health, waiting to die, again. And there it is, another death. Meanwhile the person I called is trying to raise me, having no ic way to know what's going on with me more than a corpse. No way to know I am below level 10. Now, my things will be in the corpse conservatory, and the likelihood I'll make it there... very slim.. This means amulet gone, one single quest prize that I was excited to get because it was a pretty item, gone, and worst, token to enter a guild, gone.

Topping that, as my level is so low it's hard for me to kill anything but the dummies who give me no exp anyhow, I grouped with people. This literally gave me no improve in my exp message. (I really miss the % worth, for this very reason.)

Seriously here. Starting a new character, is absolute torture. I'm going through this after a 30 minute walk from the east side of the realms to the Waterdeep area. On another alt, it took me an hour to get from the south of the realms to the Waterdeep area, and immediately a wandering gnoll outside of Ardeep killed me, slamming me back down to the south. Naked. No amulet. No light. No anything.

Is there really something so horrible about gaining your newbie levels quickly? Why is it easier to get from level 10-20 than it is to get from 1-10 when there is so much more consequence if anything poor happenes to you between 1-10?

If nearly all of the playerbase is saying something is really disheartening, why is it not being fixed, or brainstormed, or looked into?

Orplar · Post by **Orplar** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:36 pm

Many, many of us know this pain. Though i am personally sorry you get the shortest end of the shortstick with that one.

Sairaven · Post by **Sairaven** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:16 am

I had the same problem now on two characters.

One, a cleric, died in Applehill and respawned in Silverymoon. I have no way to beat any of the dummies for gear or coin, and walking proves fatal the moment I run into a stirge or anything else aggressive.

The second, a rogue, started in Skullport. After heading to Waterdeep in hopes of finding some groups, I died and was whisked away back to Skullport. Fortunately, there was still gear on the ground in the training area. I had to really work hard to get the 5 plat to get back to Waterdeep again, but at least I was able to recover my corpse at the conservatory (thanks to a kind soul that brought it there).

If you don't start in Waterdeep, you're screwed.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:31 am

I had a low level priest in ZK trying to fight one of those elven slaves with his bare hands for over an hour and 30 mins before I had to go. An hour and 30 mins, and the bastard still wasn't dead...

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:37 am

Horace wrote:It plateaus off around journeyman, most skills/spells you'd have to dedicate 100 hours (with genius INT) of solely trying to train them to get from journeyman to grand master...

I haven't noticed any "plateau". Also, even for slow skills, I would say this would be more accurate to say from inept to grand master instead.

Faster skills? Easily less at genius or higher.

Selveem wrote:I had a low level priest in ZK trying to fight one of those elven slaves with his bare hands for over an hour and 30 mins before I had to go. An hour and 30 mins, and the bastard still wasn't dead...

Pwn.

Elven slave > You

Orplar · Post by **Orplar** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:00 am

ouch

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:05 pm

It's easy enough to make it so that the weapon master gives out free (plain) weapons to lowbies who ask for one. Would that help?

Lerytha · Post by **Lerytha** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:39 pm

With the problem of "I've lost my weapon it now takes an hour to bruised a dummy", I think so.

With the larger (and more worrying/detrimental) problem of lower levels being near impossible to hold any enjoyment whatsoever, it'd be like using a sponge to plug a gaping hole in a sinking battleship.

Sorry for frank words.