Proposed Policy: Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog Over buying

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Selveem
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Post by Selveem » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:14 pm

Also, regarding what you said:
The items in question were placed in Aurora's so that the people in question could have a selection of items, and so p. They have sporadic login times, and I thought I would generate some good RP by allowing other PCs to purchase the item for them. As I work on babies, I thought I would put in some items for expectant mothers, of which there are several in the game at the moment. They were all unique and different to give people a choice.
That's specifically forbidden by what Oghma already stated:
-No player should be buying items for other players.
reason: The catalog costs money for a reason; it is an exclusive store with exclusive clientèle.
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Post by Mele » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:17 pm

Oh come ON.

As in.

Bob walks in from the west.
Bob says "I want the sword there."
Fred says "Sec"
Fred buys the sword.
Fred gives the sword the Bob.

Not as in.

Bob walks in from the west.
Bob smiles at Sally.
Bob says to Sally, "I bought you a present because it made me think of you."
Bob gives a frilly dress to Sally.
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Post by Selveem » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:20 pm

Uh, where does it apply that exception?
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Post by Shabanna » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:21 pm

:shock:
Um... I have a preggo.... and I had no idea they were there :P unless this is only for certain other preggos? specific preggos in the preggo club??? or ...lol something like that I guess I will log my preggo with the loot and go see??

Im sad I had to find out this way... *sigh* but happy about the prospect that I might be able to find some cool item to blow a lot of my coin on :P

As for the post in general....

If some of the loot is left cool if not *meh* its only stuff... I stopped logging banna and my preggo when an imm tried to hurt the baby ... so maybe Ill log her again ?? I dunno ( that is another thread though) heh.. okay im out.
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time to go shopping *breaks out her debit card*
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Oghma
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Post by Oghma » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:23 pm

If you read the helpfile ingame it states this:
The Sears and Roebuck of the Forgotten Kingdoms, Aurora's is a realm-wide
commercial enterprise with branches throughout the kingdoms. Specializing in
exotic and unique items, shopping at Aurora's requires not only finding a
branch, but purchasing one of their rather hefty catalogs. Doing so opens
doors of possibility, however, if you have the coin to spare.

Aurora's is actually a "player-run shop" stocked by the Immortals with
interesting items from time to time. Most of the items are unique, though
they can range from nonsensical tidbits to powerful magic items.

Because the items at Aurora's are hand-crafted by the Imms, hoarding them is
not tolerated! You are only allowed to buy ONE of each type of item there
stocked, whether it be for yourself, or another.
Items purchased there may
NOT be re-sold or bartered. If you purchase an Aurora's item you don't wish
to keep, your ONLY options are to BURN it, SACRIFICE it, or to GIVE it away
for no renumeration: either to someone else, or to any Aurora's shopkeeper so
that they may re-stock it.

Also it is asked that players avoid having items purchased in Aurora's renamed, as
this may cause complications, since they have already been renamed once.
This means that you can buy one kind of thing for someone that does not have it, but that means you cannot buy another for yourself, because you bought them one. The forum post you mention is older than the helpfile as such not everything in it is up to date. The helpfile always trumps proposed ideas on policy.
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Post by Larethiel » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:25 pm

Hmm, I was told several times that you should -not- buy things for another PC as gifts rather give them a) the coin for the item or b) coin for cataloge and item.

Can someone, Oghma probably, make a clear statement on this, again?

Edit: This went up, when the reply was already made so ignore it, thanks :)
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Post by Selveem » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:30 pm

Thank you for the exact response I was looking for. I too was told not to buy things from there for others in the past. So, I haven't. Glad to see this has changed.

At any rate, I'm still curious as to why it is acceptable to guilt-trip others who may have had no ill intentions regarding this? And, how is it known that those players' characters aren't planning to give this item to a pregnant PC?
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Post by Horace » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:40 pm

To be fair, I think the same passes should be given to Mele since we didn't know her intentions either (same as those buying). I'm sincerely sorry Mele, I should not have used the word scolding.

I just think we have different game expectations. I myself could see many reasons for a fighter wearing wizards robes, and buying them...or a wizard buying fighter gear. I personally love the idea of imms throwing items into that catalog, and I'm pretty sure everyone else does as well - please don't stop because of my posts on a forum.
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Post by Mele » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:49 pm

Thank you, Horace.


Selveem, I was not guilt tripping anyone. The items were not purchased for pregnant women. Stop arguing simply because you don't like me. It's over done and tired.

I don't care who bought it. I care that 10 went in for 5 pregnant women and before even 1 or even 1 of their friends made it there, there was only 3 dresses left.

Waukeen was trying to do a nice thing because she is who runs pregnancies. She didn't want to sit on all day stalking pregnant women, she wanted to make them available to get as gifts, and for the women to stumble upon surprised and excited. Now she feels like she never should have put them in to begin with, since they dispereased so quickly her little ducklings barely got to see them. She takes good care of the preggies.

What I said was exactly what it is. - Do not buy multiples of an item that will simply sit in your pack for months during the first hour of it's sale when there are players that are currently able to use it who have not had a chance to even SEE them. Not directed at anyone, not anything. Comes up because of this situation at hand, but it's only a thing that makes the thought process come that something should be said for future cases like this.

Why? Because they're fun little items that are nice to have for people hauling through a very long roleplay(In this specific case) who miss out on other things, but get to experience a very awesome other thing. And players like Shabanna who are baking their butts off irl would have missed out COMPLETELY on this because of their log in time. And while she may not care that she'd miss out, I DO care that she'd miss out. Pardon me for that.

The point isn't whether or not people mind missing out on these things. The point is they are missing out so that these items can sit on someone elses mount/in someone elses bag for months or even -years- going unused.
Last edited by Mele on Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Selveem » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:01 pm

Mele wrote:Selveem, I was not guilt tripping anyone. The items were not purchased for pregnant women. Stop arguing simply because you don't like me. It's over done and tired.
This was how I read it, Mele. As to how I feel towards you? I'm neutral. If you want to get personal on the forums, I'll tell you exactly (and in all honesty) where I stand regarding you: there are times I very much dislike you by the way you act and the way you treat other people. Believe me when I say I hear plenty. I will say there are other times where you really shine, too. I've had some great times with you, if you remember.

In any case, I was addressing the post and the negativity within it, not you as a person. That is the "tone" which you stated couldn't be read, but was how I (even after re-reading it) have seen it to be. I don't feel it's condusive towards enjoyment of the game and I feel it is taking a swing at anyone who (like I addressed previously) may intend to give one to someone who is/will be pregnant. And, even if they weren't they could be using it for some other RP.. A disguised rogue female wearing it to pass off as a woman who _is_ pregnant, maybe? There are plenty of possibilities.

I am sorry, Waukeen, if you are upset by the contents of this thread as Mele described. Please understand my post isn't directed towards you but rather how the aftermath was handled.

I absolutely agree that waiting on someone is very time consuming. I understand that scheduling a time to meet with the person may ruin the surprise intended. I also know that giving the 'item' to someone else is extremely unreliable. I've lost many items in the past intended for others by giving them to someone as a proxy. I empathize with your predicament.

I would be more than willing, in the future, to help with some solutions that could be used to assist with the difficulty you faced. I have a few suggestions and if you are interested in discussing them we could speak via PM or email.
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Post by Kohadon » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:50 pm

Tsk tsk. Come now, this's not the way Fk....ians should be behaving. At least not publicly. Laundry stays in the hamper until discarded or forgotten. Or maybe even washed at sum point, but who likes doing laundry? :cry:
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Post by Mariela » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:51 pm

Cataloges sometimes run out of things.
Items are placed on backorders, and sometimes the company just simply runs out.

This is how I treat the Catalogue. I paid my 10 platinum down to have the privilage of looking over the goods and having a good time watching for new items. I don't ask for special things to be loaded for me, and I just enjoy the thrill of seeing what new crazy will be added. (There have been some real winners!)

I don't ask for people to load things specifically for me. As someone part of the preggo role play, I honestly don't feel the need to go out shopping like crazy at this point for the child or myself. Why? cause it gives other people a chance to go gift buying like crazy. I have found that if most people have a reason to go gift buying in FK they do. And they are very good at it. There is no reason to get all hyperactive about things dissapearing from the Catalogue on my behalf. Some others, I can understand, are very upset about it. Cool. That's their decision.

But me, the way I see the Catalogue.. I paid my coins to have the prilvilage to see the assortment of weird from across the Kingdoms. That's it. Not the privilage to buy them.. but to see them. So, I am not offended at all that something went down for Mariela and I didn't get to see them. I'll live. :) As if I don't have enough in my packs already.

Thank you Waukeen for loading new weird into the Catalogue! I love weird! :) Make more. :)
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Post by Sairaven » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:46 pm

(edit: I had no idea this would end up being so long. Sorry!)
I would like to chime in on this, in support of the "If it's IC to buy it..." argument.

As a mud, we pride ourselves on enforcing IC, yes?

So if Sairaven walked into Aurora's and decided that he wanted to buy something to go along with the pair of little booties in his pack (don't ask, strange story), he should be able to.

It's awesome that Waukeen put those items in there, but if they are available to the public it should be expected that the public might buy them.

Is it someone OOC grabbing an item 'just because'? Depends on the person, I suppose.

That is the hazard of things being in a public shop. It might sell out. It happens all the time when I want to go to the store during a big sale. It's the reason those day-after-Thanksgiving sales start at 4am (wtf lol?) and have a "first-come, first-serve" kind of policy.

I think it sucks that the people who could have used the items didn't get them. Please don't think I don't. But it's part and parcel with it being in a store.

Consider this the door-buster maternity sale, I guess...
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Post by Nedylene » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:10 am

This is difficult. Aurora's realms is a specialty catalog with few rules and little disclaimers. Oghma so very kindly pointed out the rules. So, here is a question.... The case and point at hand. Baby and Maternity clothes. There are some players who are now actively pregnant. Some players who have multiple characters who are pregnant or just gave birth. And some players who are planning or trying to get pregnant with their perspective pair. We also have some players that play a character that is "childlish" in nature and walk around with bears and stuffed toys. Of these variety of players..... should any of them be told not to buy something that fits their characters?

It is a touchy line. Sometimes the items in question are put into Aurora's for a certain character or "type" of character. But, once it is in Aurora's we have no recourse as to who obtains these items or how. They can purchased for personal use, they can be purchased as gifts or they can be purchased for the hope on the horizon. Should we as players restrict who purchases items from Auroras? Should this become policy that one should automatically "know" without being told or informed that something is in there for a special rp?

In times past Aurora's has been used to get (free) renamed items and roleplay props to specific players. At one time a huge Winterfest Ball happened where an immortal was kind enough to rename dresses, outfits and accessories for players. It was WELL posted to ALL players that there will be some items in Aurora's that are specifically designed for certain players and be sure to think before you purchase anything. I think that in the future if Aurora's is utilized to get maternity items or ranger items or druid items or anything.. perhaps to avoid confusion and to avoid a confrontation on the board such as this that a post should be put in events stating that there are specialty items in the store and outline which type of character they are designed for so that the players have the chance to act responsibly. And perhaps prevent a blow up discussion detailed above from happening.
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Post by Waukeen » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:32 am

I think this discussion has gone on long enough, guys. It's not going anywhere productive, so can we move on, please?
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Post by Rawlys » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:41 am

Not being argumentative Waukeen, but there were some valid points that were brought out during this discussion and some helpful suggestions as well (personal viewpoint). Please don't discount this topic as a failure.

Thanks ;)
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Post by Kelemvor » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:50 am

Valid points aside, its disappointing that people feel a need to infer failure or weakness in any genuine attempt by an Immortal to contribute to them game.

Yes the matter could have been handled differently and yes there are lessons to be learned by all staff concerned. However, continuing to argue a point when the concern raised has been addressed as best it can be and compunding that by descending into personal flaming achieves nothing but harm.

Mele, I know how much you value the pregnancy roleplay and I understand your intentions in posting, but sometimes we just have to hold our hands up and say 'whoops'.

Selveem, I appreciate your in-built desire to champion the cause of every player adversely affected by a rule or decision, but sometimes you need to recognise when waving that banner is just your own ego and not a positive contribution to the MUD.

This whole issue has turned into something it isn't and all you've collectively managed to achieve is to make Immortals feel that such work is wasted or too fraught with recrimination to be worth the effort.

The previous discussion and resulting Help File on who what and how to buy from Aurora's came about because players blatantly abused it. It is not pleasant to have to introduce or enforce such rules and they can not perfectly cover all situations, but if all players held to the spirit of the game we wouldn't need to have them.

We do not lock or move or delete posts any more so this pleasant little outing will remain for all to see. I'd hate for new players to the game to think that this was a common type of thread.

I also strongly advise that no-one elects to disagree with anything I've posted here as I have plenty of dirt to throw... :)

(and for all the tone deaf out there, that was a joke)

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Post by Kohadon » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:45 pm

........No, YOU'RE wrong, Kelemvor!


jk! *shields his eyes from the mudslinging*
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Post by Selveem » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:19 pm

Kohadon wrote:*shields his eyes from the mudslinging*
I think he meant dirt nap, my friend.. Kelemvor's new song quote: "All in all it's just another brick in the wall."
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Post by Shabanna » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:20 pm

:roll: Um... my card was declined at Auroras...maybe we could open up a sears???
( darn those bouncing checks Algon has been sending me from the church of Tempus)

Im Just sayin...

*cough*
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