[Barbarians]Totem Channeling?

[Tobias]

Edited**

New idea post a few posts lower

[Nedylene]

Wasn't it an ability only of the elder barbarians? How long would a barbarian need play to get the ability, also, if I remember correctly, wasnt it just one type of animal per elder? Would it be set like a ranger racial enemy they could only choose once?

[Orplar]

That sounds like a good idea, only being able to pick one kind of animal. It should get different animal things though, for different skill/stats. The ons in that book were reallly powerful. If I remember correctly.

[Velius]

Were the barbarians in the books of the Uthgardt tribes (Most likely)? If so, barbarians shouldn't get this ability as a whole. maybe Tempurians (because of Tempus's relations with Uthgar) and Malarites (because Malar has killed several totem spirits and taken over their portfolio's). Or should barbarians as a whole be limited faith-wise?

F.E. Fire Genasi can only follow deities that have fire as part of their portfolio (Gond, Talos, Kossuth, etc.)

Perhaps barbarians should have similar restrictions

[Kregor]

To put them in perspective of D&D, they would be barbarians, with either some levels of druid, or else a prestige class. And FK does not support multiclassing.

Shapechange should NOT be a barbarian skill. That is a skill that is meant to distinguish the druids. It's the reason it was yanked from the rangers, that, and it's not D&D.

There will be things that could make barbarians a distinctive class once all the new code goodness with resistances and damage reduction is in place, without turning them into a PWNer druid.

[Tobias]

I could easily see barbarians channelling spirit totems since most barbarians are from a shamanistic society. It wouldn't necessarily have to cause them to change shape but perhaps give them attributes in combat depending on what totem animal they chose as theres thus giving them a bonus X amount times a day when they channel them. Like bears +hit tigers +dam boar an extra berserker rage if that is limited to daily use charges. Even for one thing that gives bonuses to ac or some such for a thick hide?

[Nedylene]

I like that last idea much better then shapechange.... But...
Tiger - +dex
Bear - +str
Boar - +con
Wolf - +wis
Coyote - +lck
Badger - +dmg
Elk - +hit



I can't see cha or int being increased by it.

[Velius]

But barbarians aren't just blessed out of the blue. Lets say you are a barbarian and your deity is Lathander, should you still receive blessing from some totem because your great-great uncle's brother-in law was a shaman? If we are going to go through with this totem thing, barbarians should be limited in which faiths they should join.

[Tobias]

It would depend. You can ideally follow any god and still be trained by a shaman or other barbarian. But more than likely it would be a more natural god if your race would follow it aye.

[Lathander]

From my readings I'll interject two comments.

1. I agree with Kregor that "shapechange" would only come as part of a presitge class, which we don't/won't have on FK. Ony some barbarians received that ability whether it be based on deity, tribe or, in many cases, a combination of the two.

2. My OPINION is that we would most likely have faithed barbarians follow the existing (played) gods that fit their nature but allow them to refer to the gods by a different name. Basically, as I understand things, the main gods of the barbarian tribes are really alter egos of the human gods we know and love. Totems can reflect that or, at times, are made in the image of demi-gods - heroes that have ascended to minor godhood.

P.S. Don't read into my comments that barbarians are anywhere near ready to be added to FK. We really need to address other fighter-related issues first when we have time and inclination. Barbarians would come after any such efforts.

[Kregor]

Regarding the postscript, Lath. I can't really say, but I have a feeling that part of the sudden surge of enthusiasm for a barbarian class may be directly influenced by said fighter class issues.

Barbarians will have abilities in and of their own that will distinguish them from other warrior classes, when and if they come in, they should not be gaining momentum as a patch job to "make up" for shortcomings of another class. We have deficiencies in several already existing classes -- including fighters, rogues, and druids -- that we should focus on improving and bringing to spec, far before focusing effort on a new class.

Grafghur started a new suggestion and discussion thread on the fighters and feats/skills/etc which had a little momentum. I would like to see the same kind of threads for the other two guilds above, granted that our druid and rogue population are smaller than our fighters.

[Tobias]

I actually wrote this thread because I was reading a book and remember the daughter of the drow books remmebering how her Barbarian fellow eventually did his thing. Not as a patch job for anything really. But when that original thought got shot down I remanded the idea to something less drastic but something that I could easily see them doing. It would not be bad to shoot out random idea's to people even if it will be awhile before said class comes in. I have a fighter or two I like my fighter I use heavy armour even with the fighters needing a bit of tweaking or what have you.

[Nedylene]

I suppose one of the good things of having a broken computer is that I can be a geek and read through sourcebooks. The one I chose for this weekend was the Unapproachable East. Within the Unapproachable East they feature the Rashamen Berserker which, while it is its own class, is very much like a barbarian. The Rashamen Berserkers have their very own exclusive set of feats which could/would actually be nicely converted to the ideas stated above. They could be kept as Barbarian only feats or they could be converted to skills they gain at certain ranks. Typed from the Source Book here is the list of them:

Ettercap Berserker
[fighter, general]

The intense physical training required to join your lodge has made you tougher.
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, membership in the Ettercap Berserker lodge.
Region: Rashemen
Benefit: You gain +2 bonus on saving throws against poison. When raging, you gain a +6 bonus on Constitution. During a greater rage, you instead gain a +8 bonus to constitution.
Normal: A character in a rage gains a +4 bonus to constitution. In a greater rage a character gains a +6 bonus to constitution.

Great Stag Berserker
[fighter, general]

Your fighting style employs aggressive charges in the manner of your lodge's totem animal.
Prerequisites: Ability to rage, membership in the Great Stag Berserker Lodge
Region : Rashemen
Benefit: When using the charge action you may gain a +4 bonus on your attack roll and take a -4 penalty to your AC for 1 round
Normal : A charging character normally has a +2 bonus on your attack roll and a -2 penalty to AC for 1 round

Owlbear Berserker
[fighter, general]

Your fighting style emulated the owlbear, the totem beast of your berserker lodge.
Prerequisites : Strength 13, ability to rage, membership in the Owlbear Berserker Lodge
Region : Rashemen
Benefit: When grappling, you can make an unarmed attack to deal 1d6 points of normal damage with a successful grapple check. You do not suffer the usual -4 penalty for dealing normal damage.
Normal: Characters who do not have this feat can deal 1d3 points of subdual damage, or normal damage at a -4 penalty on the grapple check.
Special: Characters with this feat may choose the Improved Grapple feat even if they don't meet the other prerequisites for Improved Grapple

Snow Tiger Berserker
[fighter, general]

You have learned how to pounce on your foes, much like your totem spirit.
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, ability to rage, membership in the Snow Tiger Berserker Lodge.
Region: Rashemen
Benefit: You may make a full attack as part of a charge action, but only if you are armed with a light weapom (If you have light weapons in both hands, you may strike with both under the normal rules for fighting with two weapons)
Normal: Characters without thie feat may only make one attack as part of a charge action.

Wolf Berserker
[fighter, general]

You have studied the fighting styles of the wold and employ its tactics in combat.
Prerequisites: Ability to Rage, Membership in the Wolf Berserker lodge
Region: Rashemen
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on trip attacks and on checks to resist an opponent's trip attacks
Special: Characters with this feat may choose the Improved Trip feat even if they don't meet the other prerequisites for improved trip.

Ice Troll Berserker
[fighter, general]

When raging, your skin becomes very thick and tough like the ice trolls that plague parts of your homeland.
Prerequisites: Constitution 13, ability to rage, membership to the Ice Troll Berserker lodge.
Region: Rashemen
Benefit: When raging, you gain a +2 natural armor bonus to AC. During a greater rage this natural armour bonus increases to a +4

[Lathlain]

One of the problems here is that these abilities would only be available to the Rashemi, or particularly respected outsiders at a push. Barbarians of other regions (Such as a the Nars or the Orcs, who I know are having a barbarian guild made) would be shut off from any of these, putting them effectively at a disadvantage.

Berserkers of Rashemen will only join one lodge in their lifetime (there have been examples of more, but it's certainly not the norm), each lodge conveying one of the benefits on your list (Lodge of the Stag, Lodge of the Ice Troll etc), which they'd gain after their initiation ceremony. You'd certainly not be able to collect them all, I mean!

Edit: That said, I've just realised you were talking about a conversion of the idea, not implementing these as berserker lodges for all races! Mind you, I'm not certain that we need excuses to make them stronger

[Tobias]

I think thats why she stated they could easily be made to be a barbarian classes or lodges for them all not just rashemi. Which I could see I think it would be a bit flavorful although someo f the benefits of them would be useless unless trip and such is put in until then!

[Lathlain]

I rather agree - I suppose ultimately it just seems a little random! Barbarians in the core handbook and the campaign setting don't get shamanistic abilities, after all. Rashemi society is rather uniquely based around spirit worship/ritual, and these traits are reflected in their berserkers only because of this. It can't really be applied to barbarians in general, because the realms simply don't work like that!

The discussion started as a concept to introduce shape-changing into the Barbarian class, which I strongly agree shouldn't be an option. Taking second best and shoehorning totemic energy into them instead just seems like a cop-out to me!

Barbarians should be as similar to the core book description as possible, I feel. Shamanistic tendencies can be roleplayed, but I don't honestly think that super-powers are necessary.