Death in FK

[Horace]

i agree with ya Larethiel, I just wanted to propose something that got rid of the glory point buy system OooooOoOo I'm sneaky

[Kirkus]

The current system is fine, true. But, as someone said earlier I believe, it is too easy. Larethiel, you said it yourself, 'You die, you get raised...' There really is no sence of danger any more.

Seeing as I am stuck at work let me make a suggestion... What about this: Up to level 15 or 20 let the youngens have free reign of the current system. Then when a pc dies we get their body to the conservatory, and they can only be raised through rp interaction. This would heavily depend on Kelemvorite action and involvement of other faiths and individuals depending on the dead pc.

The next step, well one of the first steps anyway, would be to develop the realms of the other deities. This would be important because followers of a god go to that gods domain. This would give us ample room to code various deity related quests. Heck! this would also give the live pc's yet more room for far reaching rp that would roam into the various realms of the gods and the reaml of the dead.

Then we can add a system of sequentially more difficult quests to return, so that the more experienced a pc is the more work they have to do to regain their life.

[Hviti]

i agree with ya Larethiel, I just wanted to propose something that got rid of the glory point buy system OooooOoOo I'm sneaky

There's apparently been a new system in the works for some time...if/when it's still going to be instituted I have no idea.

[Rhianon]

Makes priests obsolete doesn't it. Oh well it was only a matter of time before the game started going strictly RP, with all the spells and prayers being useless.........so much for the good old days.

[Oghma]

Makes priests obsolete doesn't it. Oh well it was only a matter of time before the game started going strictly RP, with all the spells and prayers being useless.........so much for the good old days.

Once again, I do not agree with this at all.

In the last two years new and exciting spells and spell lists have been introduced for the magic using classes. As such other things have been introduced. The npc raisers were added originally to facilitate raising when there were no pc priests about. This allows players that were at a disadvantage to be able to return to life. As an rp mud though you should always take the time to roleplay the affects of a raising since it is a draining experience icly. By doing so you show that you understand the significance of the rp itself. I do not see the need of more stringent measures on raises, but I am wary of people that die and then come back with no rp whatsoever. We need to remember that the game strikes a balance and is constantly evolving. We are not here to power and crawl like but embrace rp and hack and slash, it is just an evolving process. We know that people do the best they can to uphold these principles and we admire them for their time and effort in roleplay and questing.

[Dalvyn]

i agree with ya Larethiel, I just wanted to propose something that got rid of the glory point buy system OooooOoOo I'm sneaky

There's apparently been a new system in the works for some time...if/when it's still going to be instituted I have no idea.

Reguarding death, I know of no new system being coded. The only thing remotely close to it would be a one-time project that consisted in extending the one-room death area (where death people are kept) into an area where dead people could interact with divine envoys and do some sort of quests that would allow them to come back. Right now, I see more negative than positive to this solution, so it's not part of the future projects for now.

- : that would mean that the "sense" command would not work anymore

- : that would mean that dead people are less likely to roleplay together since they would be all over the area

- : a quest that works for all PC would be nightmarish to design

- : that would make death just 'an obstacle on the road' and would reduce the 'beyond death' mystery to "just another area"

+ : that would give something to do to the dead people
- : but that's a something of limited interest (since it would just be interacting with mobs, not with PCs)
- : and, anyway, dead people can already do something - they can use 'tell' to contact other PCs

+ : that would give a way for dead PC to get raised when they know nobody online
- : tough luck, but I think we should rather work to inform people about how important it is to meet other PC rather than find solution to let them get raised with no interaction

[Hviti]

i agree with ya Larethiel, I just wanted to propose something that got rid of the glory point buy system OooooOoOo I'm sneaky

There's apparently been a new system in the works for some time...if/when it's still going to be instituted I have no idea.

Reguarding death, I know of no new system being coded.

Not a new death system, a new glory point system. There were statements that there might be some thing(s) to spend glory on other than stat/feat points, but AFAIK those are the only current options.

[Travis]

In the game Forgotten Kingdoms, death is considered to be a significant occurrence by those who inhabit the Realms. While many players choose to role-play the deaths of their characters accordingly, there have been enough instances of other players failing to follow through with this expectation that it has become a problem. This has lead to the discussion concerning the implementation of changes to the game with the intent of encouraging appropriate role-play of deaths. The most realistic, relevant, and moderate idea that has been proposed thus far and should be further discussed has been the altering of the functions of NPC temple priests to include variations in the skill and ability of the priest, the inclusion of 'preserve corpse', as well as a sliding price scale for clerical service based on level, alignment, and other characteristics.

Variations in the ability and offered services of different NPC priests would make the Forgotten Realms more realistic, as well as stimulate the role-play of a character's death. From a role-playing standpoint, not every temple priest in the Realms is going to be offering healing for the same price regardless of who they are serving. Making NPC healing more rare and with less uniform pricing will drive players to seek out the most available and inexpensive priests through their knowledge of faiths or force them to spend exorbitant amounts of coin in inappropriate areas. In the case of the latter, this increased price would discourage careless deaths and reraise. The amount being charged could be, as was proposed earlier in the discussion, based on a sliding scale.

The sliding scale would be most effective if it took multiple characteristics into concern. This includes, if possible, the alignment of all three of those involved with the NPC raising process (the dead, the NPC, the carrier), the charisma of the carrier, and the level of the dead.
This would help foster role-play from an economic standpoint in that those of extreme alignment would be even less willing to raise one another through an NPC, discourage players from trying to heal and raise others in inappropriate areas, and encourage players to seek out the most inexpensive, and thus appropriate area, for them to heal and have others raised. A much less expensive option for the player could be, as was also proposed earlier in the discussion, the purchasing of corpse preserving oils, wraps, and salves of some sort from almost any temple priest.

Including a method to preserve corpses, as well as perhaps decreasing the cost of resurrection components slightly and increasing their frequency, in conjunction with the altering of NPC priests could potentially be the most beneficial of the proposed ideas in regards to promoting the role-play of deaths. With corpse preservation and the decreased price of priestly components, the coin savvy adventurer would be much more likely to douse his unsavory cargo in embalming fluid and wrap him in the proper sorts of cloth, opting to wait for a much less expensive player controlled priest to perform the ceremonies.

Death is considered a significant event in the Realms by its inhabitants and is considered a prime event for role-play by those who control the Realm's characters. There has been a problem with people neglecting to play this event properly and numerous ideas have been presented in order to amend the situation. The most realistic, relevant, and moderate idea that has been proposed thus far and should be further discussed, if not implemented, has been the altering of the functions of NPC temple priests.

[Travis]

I, too, think it would be cool to float around and haunt people as a ghost for about fifteen or thirty minutes before getting sucked to the Fugue Plane.

Perhaps it would just turn you into a small, decaying, wizinvis bot with fly and scry... so you could contact someone swiftly (and or mess with them in the process) before getting flung from the Realms as your spirit is called to the Fugue.

You could also have the ability to opt out of this and just immediately go to the Fugue.

Seems neat. I like death as it is, though. This would just be a novelty.

[Mouat]

Perhaps it would just turn you into a small, decaying, wizinvis bot with fly and scry...

Travis, we already have a few Mystra wizards that fly around invis and neked... we do not need more invis neked people flying around, esepcially the ones that have dangly items...

[Meekir]

I think this ties into what I wanted to say in the "player friendly" thread.

I've always felt the death system discourages new players. I feel there's a lot of talk about penalizing the many for the faults of the few. When I get home and have to explain to my roommate, who I just introduced to the game, why he suddenly couldn't play for the rest of the day and might lose all his stuff and have to sack permanent stat points - because, well, adventuring is dangerous - it takes a lot of fun out of the game.

A lot of times new people don't know a lot of others. That's the definition of new. Heck, it's hard enough to find the exact right person at all the right times, as it is. The panic induced by a decaying body and a loss of all equipment - including quest items! - it's undue stress.

I really like the corpse conservatory although I admit, I didn't get how it worked, at first. A possibility occurs to me: we could automatically transfer corpses there after a time. I realize this isn't a perfect solution, but I'd like us to encourage RP of death (other player needed), but take some of the needless sting out of it (you are not going to lose everything and half the quests you're on). Really, we shouldn't disincentivize risk in an adventuring game.

Anyways, the harsh death system has always been a stumbling block for me... I appreciate the advances in making the game better, they help me to enjoy playing. And that's what I want to do. Play.

Thanks,

Llewis

P.S. my roommate reminded me that he's not brand new to the game. He tried it last year, died, looked through the rules on death, and never came back til now. I sympathize. Same frustration nearly chased *me* away.

[Lathander]

I thought you got free returns to life until L10. Is this not so?

[Zilvryn]

Yeh you do, you respawn back in your home town, all you have to do is retrieve your corpse

[Pascus]

Personally I think doing a res from a NPC does not promote RP, any ole person can go get coins and raise at a NPC Priest and thats it. Me, when I res someone from the Fugue Plains I give them tasks, these tasks to be completed or well I will have to call upon the Lady I prayed to and take back that life that was given, OR Just never res them again. This is a RP mud, D&D was baised on working together, if you don't know anyone then go meet people. Lets face it you walk into the square there is bound to be some people there. You meet them, and then you meet more through those people. On Erling I try to introduce myself to everyone when I am able, that way they have someone that can help them when they die. I have been getting a little rough on my tasks especially when it is with a person who was alone. Being alone is your own downfall, NO RP and NO HELP in trying to fight monsters. So I believe that there needs to be something done about the seriousness of death, I know when I first started I died 4 times in a row with a gnome and Kregor had to show me how to get places safely. New players do get the respawn until lvl 10, which is why I popped right back to Waterdeep. I just think if players are shown and told safe ways of doing things then we will be fine, but if they see the higher level people or more experienced players of the game going to solo areas because they know how then they will most likely end up dying. And dying makes me a sad panda....

[Selveem]

Pascus,

I understand what you're saying. I agree that many people think of death as just some little speed bump or pause of gameplay. I don't, however, feel that the NPC priest option should be removed.

Yes, there are many priests in the game, but that doesn't mean every priest WOULD RPly res someone just because they died. There are many faiths, such as Cyric, which are hated in general by almost every other faith. Even the Tempurians, which generally get along with almost everyone at least some of the time, have not had a diplomatic history with the faith.

Should a player of a Tormite Priest make an OOC excuse to allow his character ICly to resurrect the player of a Cyricist? Even if there are no other priests who would interact with a Cyricist to bring them back?

People say they don't want permanent deaths, but Evils do face this issue. The cost of an Evil to die is far more than the cost of a Goodie to die. Evils, by nature, are almost always greedy. This does not leave, often, diplomatic ties even amongst other Evils. What bartering chip does an Evil have to win back their existence on the Material Plane? Their equipment is already on their corpse. Their coin is in the bank, so who is to say once they're alive, they'll not bide their time for strength and then refuse payment? There is a lot of mistrust (and rightly so) in the Evils, so it's already difficult enough for them.

Similarly, sometimes there is simply someone who doesn't _know_ a lot of people to ask for help. It's generally not easy for them to trust a stranger (as with a Druid or Ranger) as it is. I don't think it should be any harder for them.

I think death in FK is already fine. I think the issue is not the code, but the players' mindsets who treat it lightly. Those who repeatedly taunt characters, slander others, attempt public humiliation, or other aggressive acts SHOULD keep that in the back of their minds, but often it's treated so lightly because they know help is only a couple commands away.

[Rhytania]

Selveem:

I think death in FK is already fine. I think the issue is not the code, but the players' mindsets who treat it lightly. Those who repeatedly taunt characters, slander others, attempt public humiliation, or other aggressive acts SHOULD keep that in the back of their minds, but often it's treated so lightly because they know help is only a couple commands away.

This is exactly what the whole point of the post was originally for, making the player more afraid of death than the character.

[Travis]

I thought it was to discuss possible solutions to a problem.

[Rhytania]

Thats the problem. The problem is not in the code or rules, the problem is with the player knowing that death in this game is nothing more than a mere speedbump. There are no penalties other than loosing whatever xp you currently have at that level.

[Travis]

Let's see heftier rewards for RP get thrown around then.

[Selveem]

I don't follow, Travis. What does heftier rewards for RP have to do with the issue at hand?

Over the course of my years, I've seen some pretty potent items far outshining those available via automated quest.

To mind, the 'celestial' weapons are one of the more recent.

The problem is not the availability of 'perks' for the 'RP intensive.'