Smelting

[Namic]

As I sit back watching as I smelt my metals that I have gathered an idea came to me. Would it be possible to smelt ores together? Say for instance I have four pieces of ore in my inv and I wanted to combine them through a smelting technique to make a larger piece of metal instead of a bunch of littler ones. I think that it would help out the begaining armoursmiths and weaponsmiths since when you are lower level and learn to craft armour some items require a decent amount of metal, and not to many lower level characters have an inventory large enough to hold all the the metal required to construct the piece of armour.
I would think that since it was all smelted together it would generally all be very similar in quality. So you dont have to sift though your whole entire metal collection to find the same quality of metal for that one piece of armour that you want to make, so it would help out both the novice armour/weaponsmith and the experianced one.

[Dovan]

To add to this a bit, perhaps a forge container where you add a set number at a time (let's say 4) and returns a waffled piece of xxx (4 bars together). Said waffled item can be broken apart for smaller pieces with a hammer at an anvil to reclaim the 4 smaller pieces.

This would give less to carry around plus give all those smelted the same quality.

Just trying to give a shot into the arm for this idea. I believe it's on the right road.

[Nysan]

Though I feel for your thoughts on smelting, I have to disagree with group smelting. It stands on the line of bulk-crafting and, much like the thoughts in that fletching thread, I cannot support it.

Now, turning piecies into a sheet or something that can be broken back into piece later on to save weight/space. In theory, I like it. But, I am hung up on the details. What would this accomplish? The 5 pieces of tin technically would take up the same weight and space as a sheet (or whatever) of tin. The only benefit I could see would be freeing up inventory space. Am I missing something?

[Algon]

Bumping this with a slightly different approach to the quality problem.
Would it be possible to have the quality of the metal in the desc?
Say something like:
You are carrying:
(5) Piece of Titanium of High Quality
(5) Piece of Titanium of Good Quality
(5) Piece of Titanium of Poor Quality


Now I am not sure exactly how many "qualities" there are when the ore is smelted poorly. So that is just a suggestion. This would make it so much more enjoyable to do any smithing. As it is now, it drives me crazy to try and get all of the same quality items in my inv to construct something.

[Sei]

What would this accomplish? The 5 pieces of tin technically would take up the same weight and space as a sheet (or whatever) of tin. The only benefit I could see would be freeing up inventory space. Am I missing something?

I think that what he's trying to say is that a character holding a hammer at low level with low dexterity would only be able to hold 4-5 items. Unfamiliar with any trades, I can only guess that to make a breastplate you'd need more than that many squares of iron... So in combining 4 pieces of ore into one brick, you could effectively hold 16-20 pieces in your inventory instead of 4-5. I think.

[Lirith]

I think it's more to do with not having to go through the process of sorting through ores of different quality to get the right ones to make an item.
Instead of smelting each piece of ore individually, you would be able to smelt several pieces of ore together to obtain one large piece of metal. It would then be possible to use that for armour or weapon-smithing as an equivalent item to three or four or however many, smaller pieces of metal.

It's a guess, but I think Algon's idea of having metal of different quality might be easier to incorporate into the game though.

[Algon]

What would this accomplish? The 5 pieces of tin technically would take up the same weight and space as a sheet (or whatever) of tin. The only benefit I could see would be freeing up inventory space. Am I missing something?

I think that what he's trying to say is that a character holding a hammer at low level with low dexterity would only be able to hold 4-5 items. Unfamiliar with any trades, I can only guess that to make a breastplate you'd need more than that many squares of iron... So in combining 4 pieces of ore into one brick, you could effectively hold 16-20 pieces in your inventory instead of 4-5. I think.

I would not think that a low level PC would have a need to be constructing breastplates. Being a "Young" player they would need to start with simple things and once they get "older" ie...gain levels and raise their dex, they could then try for the harder to make items.
But I do like the idea of creating "Ingots" of metal to save storage space. It would be great if you were able to mold 5 pieces of smelted ore into a single metal ingot. IMHO this would be a wonder addition to the smelting/smithing routine.

[Nysan]

I had to reread this thread since my last post was over a year ago, lol.

There are a number of qualities for various metals. The "where's Waldo" issue isn't really apparent in the practice metals, like copper and tin. Smelting shelf-life keep these down to a reasonable level. The "w W" issue pops up in the precious metals, like silver and platinum, and a great deal in the hard metals, like steel and titanium. Considering smelting failures, varying mining levels, and resmelting of crafting goods... you could have 6 or 7 different titanium qualities.

From what I know of trades and personal leveling experience, I cannot imagine a level 12 character, with a 5 or 6 inventory, having to deal with crafting items needing platemail metal amounts. Even if, and its a big if, there was a character like that, it is covered by the fact that construct commands uses metal on the ground just as well as it does metal in inventory.

Now that all that is out of the way... My post that was quoted was a question. All I could see from the suggestion was inventory space-saving idea. I have a history of not grasping the whole idea of a post, so I asked the obvious. If this is about saving inventory, great. I support it. Gilain likes more space as much as the next guy.
I kept trying to think of how it fit in with ore/metal quality concerns and came up blank. If we made sheets/ingots, they would simply inherit the flaws of current ore/metal quality identifications because it saves space but doesn't address the code behind the quality identification. Far as I know, it is extremely difficult to address qualities without a major overhaul of the current metal systems. I could be wrong, I'm just guessing from what I read and hear. *shrug*

[darcrod]

As far I know there are two only possible ways of discovering the quality of the metals, either by the spell identify or appraising them (smelted metals seem to be of treasure type, which can be appraised by rogues, thieves and bards).

A possible solution for this would be that you can appraise those items types according your class (as now) and additionally extra item types if you have a minimum skill level in a particular trade (perhaps journeyman?), since if you know how to make it/work it, you should know a bit about its quality.

Smelting or Lapidary -> appraise treasure
Staffmaking -> appraise staffs
Leather armour making or Armour Smithing -> appraise armour
Woodworking or Weapon Smithing -> Appraise weapons.

I have no idea about what trades would be relevant to appraise hides or wood, but something along these lines.

[Algon]

As far I know there are two only possible ways of discovering the quality of the metals, either by the spell identify or appraising them (smelted metals seem to be of treasure type, which can be appraised by rogues, thieves and bards).

A possible solution for this would be that you can appraise those items types according your class (as now) and additionally extra item types if you have a minimum skill level in a particular trade (perhaps journeyman?), since if you know how to make it/work it, you should know a bit about its quality.

Smelting or Lapidary -> appraise treasure
Staffmaking -> appraise staffs
Leather armour making or Armour Smithing -> appraise armour
Woodworking or Weapon Smithing -> Appraise weapons.

I have no idea about what trades would be relevant to appraise hides or wood, but something along these lines.

I like this idea! It does seem a little strange to me that someone who is able to craft weapons cannot tell if they are worth anything or not. I would that that once you do the quest to learn say weapon smithing, you would automatically know how to at least tell if what you have made is worth anything. I am not talking about the appraise skill where you can appraise everything, but a specific skill for your trade.

[Nysan]

Interesting idea. Would you want these appraise skills to act like the appraise trade or do something more, like see enchantments like detect magic does?

[Algon]

I would not think that just knowing how to create weapons/armor would allow someone to see enhancements. Just act like the appraise skill I guess would be the most logical course of action. I would think that a smith would be able to appraise his own work and see what it would be worth and how high a quality it is.