Uncoded Deities... a thought

[Kirkus]

I have had this thought for a while and now I give it to you, the masses for consumption and consideration.

One thing that makes the FR world such fun to play in is that there are tons of choices. Just glancing through Faiths and Pantheons, something like 120 deities outlined in there... We have 32 coded gods according to the help page. Simple logic says oh thats too bad I can't play my priest of that uber-obscure Ubtao Father of the Dinosaurs. Well yeah, we have that whole apply and be granted a few bits, like a symbol, I think it is... Don't get me wrong I am not complaining. For cases like Ubtao, this is as it should be.

Now this is my thought. Take for example the Seldarine. If your little bitty pc is an elf but doesn't want to follow Corellon but one of the other 11 deities in the pantheon, I suggest that we have the player do this; 1. apply via email as we do already 2. Once accepted have Bob the elf faithed by Corellon 3. Have Bobs symbol changed to the symbol of his chosen god. 4. Bob happily goes about his business being tended to by Corellon as a in code only member of his faith.

If we were to use the system we have in place like this, We could have entire working pantheons with everyone at least getting a little attention.

We could use this approach to help out other faiths as well. That is, if they have another faith they openly work with. Like the Deities of Fury, or.... I don't know anymore.

Just looking out for the little guy...

[Nysan]

Two thoughts...

How would your idea deal with supplicated objects.

How would your idea deal with faith-only areas of the 'parent' faiths the uncoded faiths are placed into?

[Oghma]

I'm going to go ahead and state that I don't like this idea. The reason is that though there is a huge variety of gods to choose from, we have taken the time to code thirteen completely and register them. In that regard you are free to apply for and choose any of the 32 gods (save for Sharess and Garagos) but you will have to accept that as an unregistered god you will be denied the benefits of choosing to follow a registered one. Such things as guilded spells, faith items and supplicated objects will be denied. The reasoning behind this is simple: Not all gods (and there are quite a few) can be appropriately matched portfolio wise for rp and we would rather players who strive to join a coded faith join because of the faith itself and not join that faith to mascaraed as another. In the end it depends on the patron deity and the entire immortals team as well as the applications team how this would be handled, bearing in mind past decisions cannot be taken into account because policy is always changing and improving.

What is have done is usually this:

• -Player is given a deity specific quest after they have proven themselves knowledgeable about the deity they seek to follow
  -Player is given a symbol of their patron and a random item/pet that reflects the ways of the deity they are serving.
  -This item is completely random and decided by the imm doing the faithing rp.

I consider that if you wish to serve an unregistered and uncoded deity that you waive the right to coded benefits. Its all about rp. Though other situations may arise depending on the imm in question, that is the general consensus.

[Kirkus]

Two very good questions. I hadn't thought of supplicated items so thats one minor flaw... Obviously the benefits in this area is that you could finally supplicate recall, and resurrection. This could be handled in a number of ways.

Access to the parent gods temple, thats a toughie as I don't know all the limitations of the code. As I have never had a temple to supplicate to, I don't know so someone else answer this question of mine please... When you supplicate recall do you recall to the entrance to the temple or an altar or some place inside that would be considered sacred?

I would suggest that with the application for your non-coded deity, you would lay out plans for an small shrine/temple area, that would include your allotted dwelling space. This area would include a small number of items to be used for supplicated items.

You could say be grateful you getting this extra inch don't ask for the mile. And this of course translates into they don't get no supplicated items and if they were to supplicate an item they would be in breach of contract. If thats the case, I say gimmie a S-T-R-I-K-E! And if they were to sell the item, its another Strike. Thats a hefty dose. You go from being FK's favorite son to one toe away from hell and damnation.. ie one strike from never setting foot in our make believe world again, Forever!

Or another option could be something where 1. you send in a prayer and if and when your parent deity (I love that term by the way, Nysan) chooses, 2. In the parent deities supervision you supplicate an item and then trade it out with an item from your shrine you built.

Or better yet... Yeah I am brainstorming right now... when you build your shrine which has used your dwelling allowance, we require a code that when a supplicated item of the parent deity is dropped in the storeroom it be replaced with one of your non-code deity items. This way its a automated.

[Kirkus]

Hey, Oghma thanks for your input. I completely agree that this wouldn't work for many if not most of the non-coded gods. This is geared toward the large pantheons. To further clarify, this would cover as I envision it working with the Drow, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, and Orc pantheons. Past that I doubt there are going to be many instances where it would work. In other words, this could give us 32 gods with great coverage, and an additional 45 with mediocre coverage.

[Harroghty]

The clearest cut example that comes to mind is a follower of the Red Knight being allowed to use Tempurian facilities and so on. This is only because the former faith is product of the latter one. I agree with Oghma, I believe this would be flawed if applied as policy, but I think you point out an interesting option for the implementation of some of those applications that could perhaps be used -piecemeal- to accomplish the process that was detailed above, Kirkus.

[Sadrin]

Would it be possible to code some sort of generic deity template to apply to priests following uncoded deities? It wouldn't have domains, or supplicates, and I dunno if the code allows it but give it no err, 'favor actions' one way or another.

I ask mainly because I've noticed that unfaithed (and by extension uncoded) priests don't even get the bulk of the 'standard' cleric spells, ie the ones that all priests get regardless of deity. I understand that uncoded faiths are primarily an RP thing, but an uncoded priest would all ready be giving up domains, supplication and all spells lvl 6 and above, so I don't think it would be too unbalancing to give them the standard cleric spells between 1 and 5.

[Oghma]

The only issue I have with this is that the percentage of uncoded deity priests is currently the lowest of any uncoded follower, whereas at any given time we have around 5-10 players that might be uncoded followers currently only 1 or 2 are clerics. And another issue is that the domains are very specific when geared to deities. The 3rd edition pantheon we rely on is very varied and its bound to either unbalance or make the roleplay itself less genuine. By that I mean our first priority is to provide players with the incentive and drive to join faiths that have been coded in the game. It would be counter-productive to give uncoded deity followers the benefits that all registered faith followers have.

Currently those that opt to apply to join uncoded faiths receive the following:

• -A rename reflecting the faith you have joined (usually a bit of clothing, an item or weapon favored by that deity)
  -A quest for faithing that may result in an xp glory and probably quest reward.
  -A symbol of faith reflecting the deity of choice.

(Please note that these current rules and stipulations reflect only on recent changes we will not retroactively redo or change any completed uncoded deity faith quests from the past)

Currently uncoded deity apps are determined through two possible means:

1) The player is aware that as a cleric of an unregistered deity he or she will not gain spells or domains. This is the same for any follower of the uncoded, in most cases they will not get advantages like faith only items or supplications and access to faith only areas.

2) They can be decided on by an immortal who is responsible for that character (IE the character is a former follower or the rp is being managed by that immortal) and they will direct the roleplay as it is shaped and directed by their decision and discretion. This varies and is wholly based on the decisions of that immortal, the longterm roleplay and the faith itself. This is completely dependant on the immortal, Please don't request for this situation, it is the result of long term roleplay and not application.

[Vibius]

And would it be wrong claiming be a follower of uncoded deity X, behaving honestly like a member of such faith would but never applying for being member of such church? after all a follower of a coded deity that strives in secrey/deception/whatever could claim that he is a follower of any other deity.

This would have the interpretation of having X as patron but don't being member of his church (like your average commoner in Faerun)

[Oghma]

Probably not. But it may have in character repercussions. Generally its not following, it is paying lip service in that case.

[Vibius]

Then telling that X is your patron (and behave according the tenants of the faith) but that you aren't member of his church would be free from IC repercusions?

[Larethiel]

But it may have in character repercussions.

[Harroghty]

The Priests and Faiths thread gets interesting (and pertinent to this discussion) on about page four of replies with this comment from Dalvyn:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=8766&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... =60#p63179

See also Lathander's comments here on page five:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=8766&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... =80#p63287

And further along in the discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=8766&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... =80#p63300

[Vibius]

After reading all the posts I fail to understand why being a "lay worshipper" as someone who worships faithfully a specific deity but he doesn't wish to be member of the church for any particulars reasons, would have IC repercusions. Unless this is a FK twist, then it's ok with me.

[Oghma]

And would it be wrong claiming be a follower of uncoded deity X, behaving honestly like a member of such faith would but never applying for being member of such church? after all a follower of a coded deity that strives in secrey/deception/whatever could claim that he is a follower of any other deity.

If you are caught, then probably you'll have to deal with ic repercussions from those that catch you. A follower of secrecy or deception would probably suffer in some ic way depending on the situation. That situation does not seem to describe a 'lay' worshiper, but instead, someone potentially masquerading, which is completely different. It all depends on who or what catches you and only then if you are caught. I'd go into more details but I'd rather not, because it seems to have little to do with the thread itself and may be better as a discussion topic on its own.