Tempurains

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:17 am

I was reading the other day about the Dogma of Tempus and came across this. It comes from the Forgotten Realms champaign book Faiths and Avatars

DOGMA: Tempus does not win battles, he helps the deserving warrior win battles. War is fair in that it oppresses and aids all equally and that in any given battle, a mortal may be slain or become a great leader among his or her companions. It should not be feared, but seen as natural force, a human force, the storm that civilization brings by its very existence. Arm all for whom battle is needful, even foes. Retreat from hopeless fights but never avoid battle. Slay one foe decisively and halt a battle quickly rather then rely upon slow attrition or the senseless dragging on of hostilities. Remember the dead that fell before you. Defend what you believe in, lest it be swept away.

Just though I would see what others have to say about that. I know that there is a favour loss every time I flee, no matter the circumstance of the fight. Wondering if there would be something sometime in the future that would say consider the PC and the NPC and if the NPC is undefeatable by that person if the loss of favour from fleeing the battle would not happen.

Just something I would like to get some feedback on.

Yboesh · Post by **Yboesh** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:43 am

While I am unsure of the proper AD&D rules concerning flight from a battle for Tempus' followers, it seems as though, from an ooc standpoint, that the coding work to enact such a program that distinguishes an "undefeatale" opponent, from a "defeatable" one would be hardly worth the trouble, there is already the "consider" command, that works quite well in my opinion and any more coding would be most likely unecessary.
However, from an IC stand point, it might be a good plan to RP such, while maybe the loss of favor that accompanies such actions isn't all that high, and there are perhaps other ways to regain the favor lost.

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:49 am

The consider command does work great, but you do not always get the chance to consider. Say you walk into a room with a dragon, he attacks outomatically. There is no way that one character (at least one of mine) will be able to defeat a dragon alone.

Yboesh · Post by **Yboesh** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:04 am

True, but if someone were to have a run-in with a dragon, IRL, there would be not much debate with oneself, "Hmm, here is a seventy-foot red dragon that looks to be quite hungry, what should I do?", the quick answer is

" RUN SCREAMING"

Tierney · Post by **Tierney** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:11 am

If you were a god, would you be more upset that your follower ran from a dragon, or that they were foolish enough to be in the room with it in the first place?

Stayne · Post by **Stayne** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:38 am

When to retreat from battle is as often tricky for a Tempurian as when to battle. Tempurians DON'T retreat from a fight (to make this more clear, a Tempurian will stand up and be counted before others), but that is ONLY when a fight exists. One of the doctrines of the faith is - Do not look for war where there is none. That being said, if a fight does exist where the Tempurian needs to aquit himself with honour then it often depends on the circumstances of the battle. If you were exploring a cave with a few friends and accidently "woke" a dragon, retreat from such a battle is often acceptable, but a truly honourable Tempurian will stand before the beast to allow his companions to retreat first, even at the cost of his life (Such would be a GOOD death). However Tempus also likes the underdog. A small group of warriors who would give their lives again unbeatable odds are often rewarded by Tempus, wether that be victory or not is often not as important as the mark they leave in the memories of all around them.

As for how the code handles it, well in most cases you will probably loose some favour, but I doubt it is important. What is moreso is the RP. If everyone knows you retreated from a battle that you should have fought, then could you live with that shame? Could you hold your head up before your Lord? Even if everyone doesn't know, a true warrior would still feel shame and the need to atone. This to my mind is always good RP. No-one is infallable. The truly honourable are the ones who do whats right, even though it is the hardest course (like atoning yourself).

Perhaps that was alot of rambling but I hope it helps in some ways

-Stayne

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:04 pm

I agree with Stayne.

The code might disfavour you for retreating, but if the fight is truly hopeless, the dogma of Tempus allows for an honourable retreat. Of course, if you're with companions, the honourable thing to do is to wait until everyone else retreats then beat feet!

What is a hopeless fight? It's really a matter of your abilities vs. whatever is beating the snot out of you. One high-level Tempurian vs. 30 goblins? Piece of cake. One low-level Tempurian vs. 30 goblins becomes a whole different story. I hope everyone will use their proper judgement in figuring out what is and what isn't a "hopeless" fight.

Zelfar · Post by **Zelfar** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:15 pm

Hey Guys I was just looking through the links on the site and I didn't see any that had lots of info on the Tempurian Faith..I have read help tempus like 3 times and have read what it says about Tempus on the site But I still would like to know more...If you know of any good sites can you please post a link......Thanks alot.

Zelfar · Post by **Zelfar** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:08 pm

Thanks

....Ill probally grt the dark elf trilogy...I have heard that it was a good one...

Isaldur · Post by **Isaldur** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:37 am

Faiths and Pantheons is a good source, it's got 10 pages on the Abbey of the Sword which is one of the major churches of Tempus in the Daleland area. It also has a few NPC's, talks about clerics, and you get to see a map layout and room descriptions of the entire place.

Zelfar · Post by **Zelfar** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:56 pm

Thanks again...I just went out today and got the dark elf trilogy. can't wait to readt it...

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:00 pm

I was just curious as to what everyone else thougt of the matter since Tempurians generally are not to wear anything that covers the face, especially visors. For those of you who do not know, saluting came from the age of knights. It was basically a lifting of the front part of the helmet to expose their face to whomever they meet. From what I understand, this originally was a sort of 'friend or foe' type thing. To show one's face would generally ensure the other that you are not a threat to them. Today, it is a thing of respect and acknowledgement.

My question is: Should Tempurians salute?

Since Tempus forbids wearing visors and such... would it be proper to even act as if you were wearing one with that sort of gesture/movement?

Isaldur · Post by **Isaldur** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:19 pm

To be honest I've never heard of followers of Tempus not being allowed to wear visors. Followers of Helm do because they're supposed to be vigilant but if you could tell me where you heard Tempus does as well I'd love to hear it.

As for salutes, you're taking actual saluting from -real- life and putting it into fantasy. In Forgotten Realms there might be 100,000 different types of salutes, ranging from different militant faiths (Tyr, Torm, Tempus, Helm, Red Knight, etc) to different Paladin Orders, or different government militaries, countries, guilds, and so forth. I can't remember any real fantasy salutes that stick out in any book however except for the Knight of Solmania salute in dragonlance where they bring the sword hilt up in front of the face before attacking.

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:31 pm

In the sword of truth the soldiers that follow the main character I believe but their right fist to their heart. And maybye bow a little, but they always mentioned the fist the the heart.

Tempus · Post by **Tempus** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:24 pm

Faiths and Pantheons wrote: When not in battered armor, clerics of Tempus often wear helms or steel skullcaps, though they are careful never to cover their faces, for such close emulation of Tempus is thought to be an affront to the Lord of battles.

That being said, even in this (real) world there are numerous ways of saluting, varying enormously from country to country, and culture to culture, as well as with the degree of respect or obeisance being shown. As such, not wearing a visor to raise does not preclude you from saluting. If you wish to use emotes to consistently indicate a mark of respect, feel free.

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:38 pm

I have recently started reading the Forgotten Realms books, and I love them. But in the small little town that I live in there is not a whole lot of places that sell fantasy books. SO I have to resort to buying them off the internet. Now my question is, I want a book that involves Tempus...and I do not want to have to just buy books and hope that I find one. Can anyone give me the name of some good books? Thanks a bunch

Villis · Post by **Villis** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:20 pm

I'll have to wrack my brain on this one a little, but right off the top of my head there is a community in the Icewind Dale trilogy that reveres tempus. So, namely the book The Crystal Shard would be useful (plus it's a very popular book anyway). By extension any book that has the character Wulfgar, given his devotion to Tempus.

I might think of more later, but that vein would at least get you started.

Belose · Post by **Belose** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:46 am

You know, I just counted my FK books and I have 95 of them... the last one I think I got was either Death of the Dragon or Elminster in Hell.. probably Elminster in Hell.. hardbound, from the Science Fiction Book Club, no less.... and other than those books with Wulfgar in them, I can't think of any of them that has any other Tempus characters...I just decided it's been too long since I read them and I just finished The Finder Stone Trilogy and went into The Harpers #15 which is Finder's Bane, and I keep wondering if I should just do the Harper series again before starting on the other trilogies, or the dark.. there I go again rambling.... never mind.... If I come across something, I'll let ya know... sorry I can't think of any other Tempus books..

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 5:38 am

Great example of a Tempurian can be found in Cormyr, a Novel.
But if you want a real good community I would reccomend the Faiths and Patheon's book where you can about the Abbey of the Sword and surrounding community and its dedication to Tempus.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:13 pm

I cant recommend any different books, but I can recommend an excellent game that has a temple of tempus. You can even get in a debate over Tempus's dogma there. The game would be Icewind Dale (not even sure if they sell it anymore).

Tempurains

Followers of Tempus fleeing

RE: Followers of Tempus Fleeing

RE: Followers of Tempus Fleeing

RE: Tempurians Retreating

Tempus Faith

Tempurians and Salutes

Tempus - What FR novels are there that feature Tempus?

Forgotten Realms books