WD Friendly Policy

[Raona]

I don NOT want to make this about the specific incident raised, or any specific incident, as much as that may help to illustrate the point.

I'm hearing two opinions, basically:
1) Help established players (within IC reason) who ask for help in WD
2) React purely ICly to established players

Everyone agrees we should help true newbies, and I hope all agree we should be at least civil to everyone who plays here, even if they annoy the pants off of us. The discussion above does point out to me how one could 'know' that a new PC is the work of an established player. With the current kismet policy, an evil tiefling is not the work of a newbie. Brar also gives some great examples about how to bend over backwards to make something like this seem IC. (Good one dropping your ore, Brar!)

So, the question remains, but let me put it more concretely:
Your paladin is in the Font when a (clearly low level) water genasi with an evil aura sneaks in and asks you for healing. This is NOT something you would normally provide an evil PC, and this is clearly not a new player since the kismet cost is over 1000. Do you go with option 1, and drop 15 plat (to pay for the Oghman healer) as you announce your intent to report this individual to the authorities of the temple for sneaking about, and depart, or do you go with option 2 and offer a civil reply but no concrete assistance? Should it be your choice? Should the game have a policy on this?

I will definitely remove all references to the WD friendly policy and replace with reference to a generic newbie friendly policy in the revision process, unless someone stays my hand.

[Lirith]

In response to that example, I think it should be down to each individual how they choose to respond. I would prefer it to be up to each individual for any situation where the people involved are obviously not new players, e.g. rare races.

If someone is below level 10, they still have access to the newbie areas to get free healing. Anyone playing long enough to have the kismet to create a rarer character (or even an evil character for that matter), should know that you are not always going to get help IC from anyone and everyone if your alignment doesn't agree with theirs. While your character might be upset or angry about that, I don't see any reason to be upset about it OOC.

[Isaldur]

In response to that example, I think it should be down to each individual how they choose to respond. I would prefer it to be up to each individual for any situation where the people involved are obviously not new players, e.g. rare races.

If someone is below level 10, they still have access to the newbie areas to get free healing. Anyone playing long enough to have the kismet to create a rarer character (or even an evil character for that matter), should know that you are not always going to get help IC from anyone and everyone if your alignment doesn't agree with theirs. While your character might be upset or angry about that, I don't see any reason to be upset about it OOC.

Well said Lirith.

To anyone that can answer me; I'd like to know when the mentality of "victim with entitlements" became the status quo of Forgotten Kingdoms instead of being part of an immersive living world?

[Brar]

Well, my answer to the question would be.. it depends on the Paladin. And should be up to the players choice.

Personally, I would try to help out one way or another (but I'm a big carebear), asking for repayement in good actions, repentance, ect.. I mean, preaching the bad to make them good is what paladin are about no? (I'm a noobzor considering pamalins.. err paladins)

But it should be up to the players ultimately, as long as the roleplay is sincere and cordial on both side. The evil guy should knows what to expect for asking a paladin... (and he should know it is one, they smell lawful goodness half a city away...)
Now, the paladin should not be surprised if the genasi try to gives him a bad reputation and try to smoothtalk people in the city about how he let him die and blablabla.

I really don't like a policy that dictates how your character should act for it is a limitation to roleplay but everyone should be ready to face the IC consequence of his IC doing.
IC actions gives IC concequences. (should have trademark that one.... for the funny story that have nothing to do with the subject, do you know where that sentence comes from? I'm making a contest about who first will guess and send me a PM with the answer )

Brar

[Harroghty]

Raona: Good analysis. I concur, but would expand it this way. (It is a synthesis of other people's comments and my own opinion.)

1. Every player character (PC) ought to react to every other player character in character in order to sustain the immersion role-playing that is the strength of Forgotten Kingdoms.

a. New Players. Every player ought to go out of their way to help new players in order to enhance this game. New players add life to the game and new facets to the role-play that we all enjoy. This does not mean that you have to go out of character, because even if your PC has the Lawful Good Alignment and the new player's PC is Lawful Evil you, the player, are not limited from giving them an out-of-character comment, saying, "Hey, my character and yours really wouldn't get along, but if you were wondering about healing you should probably check with this person or at this general location." You are not giving them quest information or ruining the game, you are just helping them to find information that is common knowledge to those of us who are more experienced players.

b. Veteran Players. Every player ought to remain in-character and be smart about using OOC comments as a means to correct someone else's role-play. If there is a wood elf chatting with other PCs in the Market Square of Waterdeep then why do some people feel compelled to lecture the other player OOC? You can probably get the same point across, and avoid any OOC drama, if we all stay IC and instead your character turns to another and remarks, "I am really surprised to see a wood elf here in the City of Splendors". A clever player will pick up on it and, if they don't, Faerun will not fall into the Sea of Swords - I promise. There may be some situations worth using the OOC comment, but they need to be few and far between in order to maintain a good, friendly atmosphere between players (because we are not limited by the nine alignments).

Summary: This game is about having fun role-playing. Let's all try to work towards that goal.

[Selveem]

To anyone that can answer me; I'd like to know when the mentality of "victim with entitlements" became the status quo of Forgotten Kingdoms instead of being part of an immersive living world?

Give me a break, dude. Many of the rules are based on it. Just to name a few:

Suicide rule.
Rape rule.
Complaints system (and any other rule shaped by it).
Anti-Same-Sex Marriage rule reversal.

Now, I'm actually for these things, so don't get it twisted. But, if you're going to be indelicate at least think back on the history of FK. I'm not saying everything should be handed on a silver platter. As I've stated many times, I'm all for working for what you want, but in this case he did for over a month to no avail.

I'm not going to sit here and say because he's a friend of mine that I don't think he should've let his frustration be translated into Osay. I'm not saying that at all, just that when someone is goaded, the person doing the taunting is looking for a reaction.

What's done is done, true, but there's now an opportunity to grow from it. Personally, I see the merit in Pevvy's extroversion. I find long-term benefits of Brar's "carebear" mentality. We all know that there are ways to accomplish giving help to other players without betraying your character's beliefs (like Brar demonstrated in his example). Honestly, I think in a way we nurture the introverted aspects of each person by declining acknowledge and respect another person's real life time. Most of us originally came here alone, but we choose to come back here over the years because we enjoy spending time with the others we've met in this game. Less enjoyment = less interest.

[Isaldur]

Give me a break, dude. Many of the rules are based on it. Just to name a few:

Three of those four examples look like rules put in place to keep the content at a respectable "rating" for the age groups that play. Not to keep immersion and roleplay from breaking. The complaints system is put in place to resolve OOC conflicts, which is why I find it absurd that people continue to post cherry-picked examples of what they feel is poor behavior directed at them INSTEAD of using the complaints system. Even worse is it gets debated when poor behavior should be reported through the proper channels in private. Suddenly a few players are painting the rest of the playerbase with broad generalisations regarding behavior when they should be debating the merits and reasons why the Friendly Policy was put in place. Finally, I end up getting irritated because I and others (Like Pev) shouldn't need explain exactly how our characters are friendly and helpful after being lumped in with those generalisations.

the person doing the taunting is looking for a reaction.

Give me a break dude sound familiar? I'm not asking anyone to explain themselves. I am not the inquisition, merely inquisitive.


Harroghty summed up everything I, you, and the others have said quite succintly however.

[Nysan]

Well, at least we cleared up the fate of the WD policy and updated helpfiles. A better result than similar topics have had in the past.

[Brar]

Wophoo for us !!!!!!!
Everyone near belgium is invited to party tonight to celebrate

Now everyone hugs and kiss each others.

brar who just noticed that typing his name on a SureType keyboard shows near as main result

[Anguin]

I just wanted to add my thoughts.

Forgotten Kingdoms shines because of the RP. I think RP should be the most important factor in making decisions on how to act/react.

If I am new and need help, the 'ask' channel has always been sufficient. If I want a specific skill, feat, or spell and can't find a trainer - well, that determines my future roleplay, right?

RP is the best thing about this game. Please keep it first.

[Raona]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, and Harroghty, for a fine summary.

I'd like to end this discussion with a request for reflection:

• It's not out of line to ask for a policy clarification or a helpfile improvement
• It's not even out of the question to provide an example from one's personal experience
• It is problematic when such an example is constantly revisited and debated, rather than the policy topic ostensibly raised. I made a specific effort to provide demonstrative examples for the issues at hand so as to reduce the temptation to discuss the actual situation that instigated the inquiry.
• If you are the victim of impolite, unfair, or unjust treatment, please raise that through the complaints process. Do not constantly maneuver to try to get a hearing of it here. Even if you are in the right, your choosing this route will color the reactions of everyone, especially staff. Through the complaints process, you'll also get Imm attention and critique, where needed, whereas they will likely not see it here. If it isn't worth a complaint - let it go. Everyone is snarky from time to time.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed their thoughts, especially those who focused on the policy issue.

[Rictinta]

I think helping new players is something we should do. But I mean if the player is really struggling, and you can help them ooc, or if they need help on a quest, that is something that should be done IC anyways, and at that point, roleplay should take over. Now if they seem new, you might want to explain that to them OOC so they don't think we're all a bunch of meanies... and that we enforce roleplay here, so they would have to ask someone else since it's against your character's nature. But as for the old people here, they should know that RP takes the front runner, they know the longistics of the game, and if it's a mechanical thing they need help with... there is always the ASK feature. I came back after 2 or 3 years, and a lot has changed, so I'm in that position. But if it's something IC that I'm trying to find, I ask someone as my character. If it's a problem with learning how to use a new feature, I either ask someone OOC or use the ASK feature. I don't think people should be forced to be nice with the OOC options to assist mechanically, but like I said, if they seem new, just explain OOC why you're not assisting, and assist them in how to RP to find help and such. Ok I'm not going into a very long speal... that's my opinion.