True Reincarnation for Glory

[Theleus]

Here is an idea, I do not know if it's been suggested before or not.

True Reincarnation for glory

True Reincarnation could reset a level 45+ character to level 1, resetting the stat points and having them be reassigned, but keeping possessions and skills. Skills have required levels, so they naturally wouldn't all be available immediately, but you'd keep the different skills and their previously acquired experience. To be fair, though, skills from prestige classes should not gain experience until they take the class again. These would be cross-class skills.

So if you have a level 50 Paladin, and you True Reincarnate, you get a level 1 Warrior. All your Paladin skills remain available to you when you reach the proper level, but they do not gain experience in those skills unless you purchase the skills/spells with glory.

qlog would likely have to be reset, or else any quests related to a guild you joined before reset. Anyway, I guess there is a lot that could be done with this, so what do you all think?

Since glory is not going to be about quests as much any more, there shouldn't be much reason for people to True Reincarnate in some attempt to accumulate glory, right? And you can furthermore attach a cost in glory and perhaps costs in other ways, like money or components, to complete a true reincarnation.

I suggested a level 45-50 restriction, but that is just a suggestion. It could be a higher or lower limit, whatever you IMMs want. I just said 45+ because be then you can use all class skills and spells, etcetera.

[Harroghty]

How would you mitigate the risk to game balance incurred by someone running around with a paladin with all the fighter skills or a fighter with all the ranger skills or any other permutation of that problem?

[Maybel]

Let alone, doing all the qbits over again would seam quite imbalanced what with some of the higher level quest rewards.
If a char knows a skill... is there a level check before the skill check, or just when you train the skill? If not, you'll get a level 5 warrior with 4 attacks and cleave. Would not really be balanced.

Why would you want to do this... like what would be the IC reasons behind this? or even the OOC reasons?

[Theleus]

How would you mitigate the risk to game balance incurred by someone running around with a paladin with all the fighter skills or a fighter with all the ranger skills or any other permutation of that problem?

Excellent point! Alrighty then, how about this:

a)Fighter True Resurrects becoming warrior, but keeps fighter abilities.
b)Warrior trains and becomes Paladin.
c)Once he becomes a paladin, some of the cross-class skills become disabled, though the experience is stored still.

This would create a paladin with a little extra oomph, but if they are really careful maybe it can be done without being overdone. When you put it the way you did, though, I see your point.

Here's an idea too. True reincarnation could have a cost in kismet AND glory, like maybe 1500 kismet and 150 glory. Or maybe a higher cost at the Imm's discretion.

Idea number two.
Maybe for each successful true reincarnation you could earn one additional stat point to redistribute. So first time you might get 19 instead of 18, then 20, then 21, up to 24 with 6 theoretical reincarnations. Any reincarnations after that could remain 24 points. Just a few ideas.

Thanks for your input, you helped me think of more stuff.

And to maybel, skills would be sealed and unusable with this plan until the character was the proper level to use them, so a level 4 would not have those extra attacks. A level 50 fighter who true reincarnates under my revised plan would have access to all fighter skills as a warrior at level 50, but once that fighter becomes a Paladin or ranger, some of those fighter skills would be disabled. Furthermore, a true reincarnated character would never gain experience in cross-classed skills unless they paid an additional glory cost for each individual skill/spell.

In character reasons fore true reincarnation could be something like a quest, during which you contract a disease of some kind so the quest giving priest offers True Reincarnation as a means of curing this disease of whatever, so you have to gather materials for him as well as meeting a Kismet/Glory requirement.

Out of character reason might be the ability to use different skillsets and get a tiny bit more powerful.

[Rictinta]

Ok but you're still creating an unbalanced class. The question here is... why do you need a class that is like this? It would create an unbalance, and it's not really necessary. If you are looking for something of a multi class, or special rp with a reincarnation... My question is why does this need to become part of the game? If it is a special rp situation, I believe we have a system with an application and then the imms can decide together based on a player by player situation. I don't think this should be available to everyone. This just screams power abuse.

[Theleus]

Ok but you're still creating an unbalanced class. The question here is... why do you need a class that is like this? It would create an unbalance, and it's not really necessary. If you are looking for something of a multi class, or special rp with a reincarnation... My question is why does this need to become part of the game? If it is a special rp situation, I believe we have a system with an application and then the imms can decide together based on a player by player situation. I don't think this should be available to everyone. This just screams power abuse.

It's just that once a character hits level 50 they start running out of things to do, right? So True reincarnation would let you take the same character and do more stuff, the quest goes on. This could encourage older players to continue using their older characters.

I'll restate what I said before. A reincarnated person keeps the abilities of the previous class, but upon becoming guilded again many of the previous abilities become disabled. Furthermore I suggested that these cross-class abilities would not gain experience with use, even though the unguilded character could use them.

And I said that some cross-class abilities/spells might transfer after joining a guild, but not all of them. So I think it's a good way to get more fun rp time out or characters.

[Maybel]

Idea number two.
Maybe for each successful true reincarnation you could earn one additional stat point to redistribute. So first time you might get 19 instead of 18, then 20, then 21, up to 24 with 6 theoretical reincarnations. Any reincarnations after that could remain 24 points. Just a few ideas.

I think one of the ideas they were throwing around with the "new glory" system is stat points for glory... I know they had that before... 20 glory and i think 200 gold for a stat point...

Just seams easier to give someone an extra stat point...

as for reaching level 50, i have 2 characters that are 50 and haven't done even a fraction of the things in game... (mostly cause new things are added constantly)

Now i'm not shunning this idea... not just yet, it just seams it would take a lot of work to have it done for a result that seams iffy and can be accomplished with a few other things

[Rictinta]

Or perhaps once things get settled with the changes and everything, perhaps adding new areas for training, and also increasing the level cap would be a good idea.

[Theleus]

Idea number two.
Maybe for each successful true reincarnation you could earn one additional stat point to redistribute. So first time you might get 19 instead of 18, then 20, then 21, up to 24 with 6 theoretical reincarnations. Any reincarnations after that could remain 24 points. Just a few ideas.

I think one of the ideas they were throwing around with the "new glory" system is stat points for glory... I know they had that before... 20 glory and i think 200 gold for a stat point...

Just seams easier to give someone an extra stat point...

as for reaching level 50, i have 2 characters that are 50 and haven't done even a fraction of the things in game... (mostly cause new things are added constantly)

Now i'm not shunning this idea... not just yet, it just seams it would take a lot of work to have it done for a result that seams iffy and can be accomplished with a few other things

You make valid points, I give you that, but I like this idea a lot, but I still like this idea. Sure there may be many more quests you can do yet, but maybe not much in the way of growth. There's probably not much room for getting stronger, and that's what I like. I like the process of getting stronger and don't mind repeating it over and over again, but I'm like, why do I have to make three characters to experience rp as a fighter, ranger and as a Paladin? I guess it's just my personal gaming style, but I like this idea a lot.

[Lathlain]

Putting aside the obvious complications and concerns, let's play along with this train of thought for a moment:

I foresee a system like this promoting a specific endgame - where all fighters would aspire to become a fighter/ranger/paladin. This means that all fighters would either be this hybrid class, or not achieving their full potential. What if it's not in their roleplay? What if they're a grubby dwarf who hates the forest and wouldn't dream of becoming a ranger? What if they're evil and can't become a paladin? Coupled with the fact that rangers and paladins are often held apart by the gods they follow (whoever heard of a paladin of Chautea?), we'd suddenly see a very curious balance shift in the game's character base (see: lots of elven ranger/paladins of Corellon) - unless the player cared more about the roleplay than the character potential, in which case they'd be horribly penalised.

From a different angle then, what of the priests? The only way to give them a similar benefit would be to allow them to keep swapping gods and accumulating domain spells until they've reached their maximum potential, which is just ICly baffling! Wizards specialising in multiple schools? Possible, but defeats the purpose of mages and the sphere system in general.

In precis, I don't think your idea can work. The D&D system is one that's been developed for years - and although we don't cleave to the rulebase entirely, we use it as a strong guideline simply because it's one of the most thoroughly tested and revised numerical system going - and taking a side-step like this in the interest of 'having more stuff to do' seems counter productive.

Rest assured that there are plenty of things to do at maximum level. Grandmastering your skills will take a while - as will collecting a set of equipment with which you're happy - and most importantly, establishing a reputable/infamous IC position can take years of interaction with others! We don't want to see roleplay sidelined in the interest of code-gain. If you want to experience all facets of the game, I'm afraid the best way to do it is to make those characters and see which one of them best captures your imagination!

If you still want more things to do, then why not get into some building yourself? Create some dungeons, lairs, fortresses and caves to explore! The beauty of the community is that everyone's in a perfect position to contribute to the growth of the MUD. There needn't be a lack of things to do!

[Theleus]

Actually, I have been designing a dungeon, but I don't know how to code. If I learned and made it I could put it into the game then? Is there a program I'd have to get? Sorry if it's off topic

[Athon]

Theleus,

Much of FK is in contributions from players such as us. You don't need to be a staff member to build areas for the game; you can do it yourself! One of the forums on the boards here is for area construction - feel free to take a look there. Also, a link to the top of the pages labelled "Builders" will give you all the information needed to build an area.

Also, you can team up with others to build areas. Personally, I am mainly a coder so I could code some portions of your area if needed.

[Theleus]

Theleus,

Much of FK is in contributions from players such as us. You don't need to be a staff member to build areas for the game; you can do it yourself! One of the forums on the boards here is for area construction - feel free to take a look there. Also, a link to the top of the pages labelled "Builders" will give you all the information needed to build an area.

Also, you can team up with others to build areas. Personally, I am mainly a coder so I could code some portions of your area if needed.

I stared at that list of commands but I don't see anything anywhere about building rooms and connecting them together and putting in mobs and setting up their roaming abilities. Am I missing something?

Edit - I originally went to the thread (HOWTO) Building an area then clicked this link: http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/builde ... sons.shtml but that link was broken, hence my confusion, but Trast told me to access builders lessons from the drop down menu, which worked. I'll start studying that in the morning. For now good night.

[Rictinta]

Very well put Lathlain... That's kinda what I was trying to get at... just less winded... lol

[Theleus]

I already discussed a way that Warriors and their ilk could benefit from this system, so I should come up with suitable reasons for priests and rogues.

In addition to the 6 bonus stat points after a theoretical 6 reincarnations, Priests could get a +2 bonus to starting wisdom and rogues could get that to Dexterity. Bonus feats are also a possibility, such as increased success rate to picking locks or hiding, or in the case of Priests, perhaps a feat that unlocks more spell slots, like a feat that calculates spellslots as if you had +2 intelligence, or a spell that allows you to cast one additional spell per level.

And perhaps minor powers could be gained as well. A priest at second reincarnation might gain waterbreathing, and a rogue might gain infravision or darkvision depending on race.

Warriors and Mages do have the most to gain from this method, so they wouldn't need those extra bonuses. Anyway, just said that to prove a point. I think I have seen enough to tell that the answer is no, but it did sound good.

[Brar]

What the hell does reincarnation have to do with additional stat points????

Actually, we had several reincarnation in the Mud already, Tocla, Blythe, Talon, Brar (yeah who would guessed...), Sable also if memory serves right, probably others...

But those were roleplay, extensive stories, not anything to do with twinking because the way you put your reincarnation thing is just that in my eyes, twinking. This is simply a code change for the sole benefit of being more powerful beyond the scope of the normal game.
We are in a roleplay mud, not a fast and furious MMORPG. I don't blame graphical MMO, I played everyone of them from alpha to realease for most of them, worked making some of them and not the least, but it would really break my heart to see us falling into the same powerhungry flaws, starting again and again for the sake of having the biggest. Not for any better storytelling or RP, only for the sake of power and testosterone.

I would rather see epic level, prestige classes, things that develops your character as a whole than a simple "IWIN" button for getting more powerful.

Fro the records and before you all burn me on a cross, I'm in an angry state and decided for once to let my mind speaks itself honestly without restrain, alea jacta est as the other guy would say.

Brar

[Rictinta]

deleted post cause it made me look mean and (word I can't say on the forms) and i'm just cranky... short and sweet I agree with you Brar.