Craft Q&A

[Brar]

Wasn't there a discussion about the fact the material was not always trivial at first sight on a piece of armor, but it is an information that can be found with a closer examination or something like that?

Not sure though.

El.

Now, that's agood point, but you can't examine things on people...

A very nice idea would be to be able to examine things on people, like you can do with shopkeepers.. going to make a game suggestion with that asap.

Thanks for the idea honey

[Selveem]

You can with peek skill.

Moar Rogues plz.

[Nysan]

3. Names were cut for concerns over lengths. With the updates on locations names from generic helms/belts/gauntlets to their current descriptive names, the lengths of names has increased considerably. Add to this the potential of trademarks and armor type, it was getting fairly long... far longer than we thought was acceptable, especially considering some of the screen sizes used by some of our player base. We opted to cut metal type and source animal from the names to make them a bit less screen-filling. I personally see no reason to return the old information. However, I am not opposed to alternatives, such as coloring skins/hides based on their source animal (red for dragon, yellow for humanoids, ect)... we use a similar system for metal and it seems to work well.

I'm not the code guy, but there HAS to be a way to include the source material in the name. Something else could be taken out of the string. Personally, I'd rather see a generic helm/belt/gauntlet location name that included the source material rather than a more descriptive location name without the source material. To me, seeing that a piece of leather armour as "a dragon-leather belt" or "purple worm-leather leggings" is more hip than "a leather insertfancyhelmnamehere" I still think that if you take the time to mine, smelt and fashion mithril/gold/elven/steel your final product should reflect that. Just as if you take the time to slice, tan and fashion leathers from dragon/bear/rat/Isaldur, your final product should reflect that. What is the incentive to use phaerimm hides to make leather armour when using rabbit hides will produce an identical looking final product?

It's entirely possible that I'm missing some part of the picture here, and if I am, please clear up my confusion. I do think that major kudos should go out to everyone who has/is working on and testing this system. I'm just offering my 25 cents.

First, thanks. We have worked hard on this and far as I am concerned, I look forward to these concerns/comments. A little feedback never hurt anyone, as long as they have a bit more thought in them than "this sucks!". (not a comment on anyone here, all useful posts)

Truth be told, I have limited time with leather/hides. I am mostly a metalworker (shocking, I know). Now, all metalcrafts are colored based on their metal, we all know this. Lead gauntlets are dark grey, copper belts are brown, ect. When you examine them, it lists the metal in the "It is made of XXX" section of the long description as well as in Appraise trade descriptions. This system works. It is easy to associate Y color with Z metal or quickly glance at the description.

That is the system I would like to see in leather/hide work. I cannot remember what leatherwork looks like upon examining it, but it would be good to see the source animal somewhere in the long description. Attaching colors to various sources would also be useful. Mostly generic colors, considering the numbers of animals out there, but I am sure something could be worked out. Brown for bears/wolves/horses, green for lizard-types, red for dragons... something like that.

I like the fancy names, but again I am a metalworker. Fancy-name full plate or banded mail looks nice to me and to most I have seen wearing it. Again, its easy to tell what metals that full plate is made out of. Until leatherworking is easier to identify, I can see how fancy names look wasteful... but I am not sure we can change fancy names on leather without tearing up metal name coding at the same time. That is mostly a Mask question.

[Selveem]

It's been a good amount of time since I started crafting with the new system. My experience is that the system is rather daunting. It seems like I won't get my next increase even after over a month of working on it. Additionally, I get more failures than I get positive responses it seems and the cost just continues to increase as the failures continue. I was curious if others seem to be having the same experience as me as non-GM smiths? Has anyone seen an increase? Has anyone else noticed equal or greater failure to success ratio?

[Nysan]

Not to get too much detail but, what are you making? Something near your level max, mid range stuff, or low level stuff like arrowheads? Weapons or armor projects? Help me get a better idea of your project load so I can see where you skill-ups rate might be and how your failure rates should lay out. To be honest, even GMs fail on projects near their level cap fairly regularly, such a GM armorsmith failing on full plate, so don't expect me to suddenly find an error there. Still, more info you share that isn't too IC, the better.

[Selveem]

Not to get too much detail but, what are you making? Something near your level max, mid range stuff, or low level stuff like arrowheads? Weapons or armor projects? Help me get a better idea of your project load so I can see where you skill-ups rate might be and how your failure rates should lay out. To be honest, even GMs fail on projects near their level cap fairly regularly, such a GM armorsmith failing on full plate, so don't expect me to suddenly find an error there. Still, more info you share that isn't too IC, the better.

Maybe I'm wrong, but from the way I understood it you're supposed to get the highest increase based off of what you make - the closer to your cap, the higher the increase. So, as an expert+ armorsmith, I've been making banded stuff.

And, as far as a "GM armorsmith failing on projects.." That should almost _never_ happen (5%) chance. I've already outlined how the process should technically work in D&D terms, but as a GM even if you fail, all that should happen at worst is it takes more time. It shouldn't require you to spend more money to continue the project. FK is already more severe in the fact that it requires you to pay coin even though you already have the metals to work with. In D&D, there's a 1/3 cost requirement, but that's because you DON'T have the materials. In FK you obtaining the materials is a prerequisite for your even attempting to craft.

That said, I was already past expert and near as I could tell based on the time I'd spent smithing I was nearing Master. Over a month crafting now and I've still not gotten the gain.

[Nysan]

Eh, not saying I failed every time, but here and there. Granted, I haven't done any AS projects lately (arrowheads everywhere!) so I might be outdated in my GM info.

Your assumption is correct. The closer the item is to your level cap, the better it works towards your skill-ups, i.e. fullblades are better than arrowheads for an expert/master WS. At the same time, you risk more failures % on the high end stuff. Double-edged sword moment. Oddly enough, I did get a skill up in weapons recently. (Yes, yes... Gilain isn't GMed in everything!)

Even with the lowered requirements to skill-up, those higher levels like expert, master, and GM are still dedicated investments for a crafter. A bit odd if you have been making banded mail for a full month at expert though, assuming you constantly crafted during the 30 days. Banded mail for the chest?

[Selveem]

Not every day, but I've made at least 6 banded chest armors.
I don't know exactly how many because there was a reset since I sold lots.

It is reassuring that you got an increase in your weaponsmithing; anyone else have anything to report for armorsmithing?

[Athon]

I'll be brief: I've been making bnded mail breastplates ever since the change. I'm expert 2 and have not seen an increase. At this rate, I'll be GM in 2 years. This is WAY too long.

[Brar]

I have been crafting non stop since the new system and went from amateur to apprentice in WS.

However in the same period of time and with the same dedication, Derissa raissed a single point of apprentice in AS.

We're both making the biggest thing available.

[Eltsac]

Just my personal experience to compare :

With Derissa, I have been crafting since the beginning of the new system.
I am apprentice in armoursmithing.

I have been crafting mainly heavy metal shields, about every day.
For now, I have never had any failure requiring me to add some money in the process, but I very often have echoes about not having made any progress, or not as much as I wished.

Since the beginning, I have improved once in my trade, that's all.

El & co

[Nysan]

So, we are seeing skill-ups? And the real concern is skill-up rates at higher levels?

[Selveem]

So, we are seeing skill-ups? And the real concern is skill-up rates at higher levels?

I guess so. Seems like it takes a big dump at my level. When each breastplate takes at least three IRL days and six+ does nothing, that's kinda rough when you include all the failure that I'm getting (which doesn't seem to be shared by all).

[Nysan]

Cannot really comment on the higher up skill-up rates. That is above my pay-grade, both in decision and being able to look at the related code.

As for the failure thing, how is the character set up? Armorsmithing focus feat? Low/Med/High armorsmith stats? I forget what they are without looking... Int/Dex or something.

[Selveem]

As I understand it, those stats should only be a bonus. Regardless, he has 10 Dex and 16 Int.

He doesn't have any trade focus feats as his intention was to be able to teach (which is why his strength and dex are crap - need 6 stat points into Charisma just to be able to teach as a Dwarf).

[Athon]

I've only seen skill ups at levels below apprentice on my other toons. I am pretty good at starting new crafts when one finishes...

I have 17 base strength, 23 when I craft, 14 dex, and 18 int. I also have trade focus on armorsmithing. I don't think I've ever failed with the new system.

But it really seems like the skill up is never going to happen. And if it does, that means it's going to take 6+ months for the remaining 3 points to hit GM?

I really think the improvement rate, at least at higher levels, need to be looked at.

[Selveem]

You've never seen a failure and you're crafting the best you can make?

I sincerely hope it wasn't made that one has to have the feats just to be a viable, reliable smith. That would be greatly discouraging.

[Nysan]

Gilain has both AS/WS focus and I have had failures, so maybe Athon is just lucky? Still, the lack of focus added on to your poor stats may be the cause of your increased failure rates Selveem. I cannot say for sure though, it is just a guess.

Skill rates, keep posting information. The more characters we see at adapt+ with rate issues, the easier it will be for the man-behind-the-curtain to decide how to adjust it, if needed.

As for teaching, don't go overboard. Gilain is trade-teaching capable and he only has Teacher 1 and Scholar 1. Unless you plan to teach level advanced stuff like brew/scribe and level 9 spells, then you'll need more than that and doomed to high CHA.

[Athon]

Gilain,

You're not going to find much more skill-rate information. The amount of adept+ armoursmiths/weaponsmiths has got to be fairly minuscule.

My reasoning for this is pretty straight-forward: we just developed an amazing new crafting system. Yet, just off of guessing from my gut, it's going to take 3 years of real life time to GM WS or AS. This time investment for it is just simply too long.

The new changes make it so that one GM smith cannot supply the demands from the game effectively. And if we're going to see an enchanting trade in the game, we'll have an even higher demand from the smiths. I understand that things need to be worked for and earned. But this just seems far too long for something that should be important for players in FK.

[Nysan]

To state the obvious, I want more GMs in the game. I hope no one thinks I have some odd design to have only Gilain as the master of all crafts or something.

That is why I am really interested in seeing any information people have on skill-ups. I want all the proof we can gather for Mask so he can adjust as he sees fit. I agree that 1-3 RL years is an hideous timeframe and I want to know if that is a true estimate, or maybe a bit exaggerated.