Waterdeep's School of Combat

[Lysha]

I seem to remember the recruiter telling you that you could go to Faerdael and do the quest there for a discount. This is the second character of mine who wasn't offered this discount, or a chance for a discount. 15 plat is a bit steep for a new character, don't you think? Was this taken out on purpose?

The recruiter for the Waterdeep School of Combat is here signing up students.
The recruiter says to you 'Would you be interested in becoming'
The recruiter says to you 'a member of the famous Waterdhavian'
The recruiter asks you 'School of Combat?'
You say 'Yes'
The recruiter says to you 'You will be able to learn many things with us.'
The recruiter says to you 'Let me know if you want to JOIN.'
You say 'I want to join'
The recruiter says to you 'Our fee is 15 platinum, take it or leave it.'

[Raona]

It looks as though this was removed from the recruiter's code, most likely intentionally.

15 platinum seems a reasonable fee to me, though...much easier than joining most any other guild?

[Selveem]

I'd have to disagree. 15 platinum from a level 10 is a huge amount of coin. Especially when they can't kill much else but dummies. It'd be nice if the cost of things were set to more closely resemble the cost of things in D&D. Especially considering encounters on FK don't bring forth the level of loot they would in D&D.

[Brar]

My point for saying 15 plat is fine.

- You don't have to join at level 10 and it won't change a lot for you to do it at level 10 if I'm not misaken (you have most fighters skill as warrior until 25 I think, but I may be wrong).
- There is some easy ways to make money in WD and around now and you can do that at level 10 if you're only half smart and 15 plat is not that hard to get while based in WD at low level if you really want it. (With 2 or 3 level 10, you can easily do that in a few hours.)

My point for saying 15 plat is not fine:

-A quest would be far better roleplay wise than a plain giving money.

Brar

[Harroghty]

I believe that fifteen platinum pales when considering the burden in time, role-play, and potential cost for other guilds. Especially considering that there are a number of low-level, alignment-indiscriminate quests available in Waterdeep that provide all or most of this sum. If anything, it encourages the would-be fighter to practice his or her desired profession.

Brar: I agree completely about a quest being a better idea in general, but not in this case: the fighter class is extremely open-ended and includes a huge diversity of types. I think it might be a better idea to build some new fighter's guilds to cater to particular types of fighters (sort of like the Gilded Lance does) rather than to remove the School of Combat as an option for those who cannot find their desired type represented elsewhere.

[Selveem]

- You don't have to join at level 10 and it won't change a lot for you to do it at level 10 if I'm not misaken (you have most fighters skill as warrior until 25 I think, but I may be wrong).

True, but if you don't you're forfeiting HP permanently (one of a Fighter's few defenses on FK).

- There is some easy ways to make money in WD and around now and you can do that at level 10 if you're only half smart and 15 plat is not that hard to get while based in WD at low level if you really want it. (With 2 or 3 level 10, you can easily do that in a few hours.)

Especially considering that there are a number of low-level, alignment-indiscriminate quests available in Waterdeep that provide all or most of this sum.

And in spending once-only gained platinum, you are costing yourself armor. One of the few benefits of even joining the guild is gaining armor proficiencies.

-A quest would be far better roleplay wise than a plain giving money.

I believe that fifteen platinum pales when considering the burden in time, role-play, and potential cost for other guilds.

Re: Brar: I agree with this point for _all_ guilds. I think a membership startup charge is fine, but I don't think it should be so very expensive.
Re: Harroghty: Yeah, sure, but I don't think it's fair to act as though all classes (especially at that low level) level as slow as fighters. My priests wizzed through those levels. As far as time required for joining some guilds, sure, but I'm not so sure I believe that they _shouild_ require so much time. We shouldn't cater only to the most available players, but those that can't play often shouldn't wait forever either. Roleplay is required of everyone, so I don't feel that should be a valid consideration. As far as other guilds, I don't know all of them but if Fighter isn't the most expensive, I'd damned sure say it's almost top of the list.

[Harroghty]

Moved this out of "Bug Reporting" to allow discussion to continue.

[Brar]

- You don't have to join at level 10 and it won't change a lot for you to do it at level 10 if I'm not misaken (you have most fighters skill as warrior until 25 I think, but I may be wrong).

True, but if you don't you're forfeiting HP permanently (one of a Fighter's few defenses on FK).

How so? Hp is class dependeant, not guild dependant I think...

- There is some easy ways to make money in WD and around now and you can do that at level 10 if you're only half smart and 15 plat is not that hard to get while based in WD at low level if you really want it. (With 2 or 3 level 10, you can easily do that in a few hours.)

Especially considering that there are a number of low-level, alignment-indiscriminate quests available in Waterdeep that provide all or most of this sum.

And in spending once-only gained platinum, you are costing yourself armor. One of the few benefits of even joining the guild is gaining armor proficiencies.

Let me rephrase, there is some easy repeatable ways to make money in WD and around....

[Rictinta]

As a fighter, and I have had many characters as a fighter since I enjoy the flexibility of the class with my roleplay options... you have to also consider, this is probably an offset to what all other classes have to do; Yes we pay for really expensive armor, but so do other classes. And at the same time, they are paying for components to be able to cast the spells they learn from their guilds. They also have to go through school's that require them to go and aquire various things, such as the school of magic, and the likes. You're not forfitting HP as I do believe Brar is right on that one, it is class based, not guild based, and the gaining of your HP is based upon your CON. 15 platinum is not difficult to acquire within this game. Yes, it would take time, but you can remain lower level, remain in the temple until you have a decent amount of coin, or as Brar has pointed out, they have made several easy ways to aquire money around the Deep. I really do not think fifteen platinum is difficult to aquire as a level ten, and the guild skills do not really take affect until later. Besides, I think with the money problem, it gives you a few more levels to develop some roleplay with your character, and others, and really make sure that you want to take your character down that guild path.

[Gwain]

There is a high volume of local quests in Waterdeep that can generate a value of fifteen platinum quite quickly for players starting out. When you take into consideration that Faerdale is different now, it would make more sense for characters hoping to join to focus on local questlines in order to make the fee to join the guild.

[Nysan]

Though it has been ages since old Gilain was lvl 10, I do maintain a hobby of joining any fighter guild he can get in. Going off the three he joined so far, 15 platinum is not unusual, though I would rather it dropped to 10 platinum.

However, Waterdeep is Waterdeep. It is the land of easy, low level quests... it is merely a matter of locating the quest-givers. Can easily hit 15 or 20 platinum before very long. And after joining, there is no concern of penalties for leveling (hp loss), merely a matter of affording better gear.

[Selveem]

How so? Hp is class dependeant, not guild dependant I think...

You're not forfitting HP as I do believe Brar is right on that one, it is class based, not guild based, and the gaining of your HP is based upon your CON.

With all due respect, I think you're both wrong. Here's why I think you're wrong:

Rictinta, your HP is your class's size dice roll +Con, not just Con.

Warriors (SHOULD) only get 1d8+Con HP. Why? Rangers only get 1d8 hp. Paladins and Fighters get 1d10 hp. If it didn't work this way, a Ranger hopeful should level to 50 in the Warrior class and then join the Ranger Guild to get lots of extra hps.

HP is not retroactive. We _all_ know this, so either way, this is a problem. As I think it works, you get 1d8 hp until you join Fighter guild or Paladin guild (possibly Squire, but I don't know about that).

[Dovan]

Personally, I'm fine with 15 plat. As pointed out, there's ways in Waterdeep to make that coin pretty quickly. Much quicker than the painful requirement of ZK's fighter guild, and I do mean painful in a limb severing kind of way. 15 plat works.

[Athon]

This sounds like making things difficult for the sake of being difficult.

Remember, warriors/fighters are supposed to be the "introduction" class to FK. We have kismet set in place for some classes and races that are more difficult.

Technically speaking, the longer you wait to switch from warrior to fighter, the more HP and bonus feats you lose. I'm not sure how that works in FK but there is reasoning behind joining a guild early.

To us advanced, long-time FK players - yes, 15 platinum is very easy. But to someone newish to FK? 15 plat is much harder to obtain. I don't see why we need to make every facet of this game difficult. A quest or two should be plenty good to get a warrior into the Waterdeep School of Combat.

[Enig]

Heya folks!

With regards to the cost of fifteen platinum, my opinion is that it's high but not prohibitively so; it's not like it's going to crush even new players (from Waterdeep, because a completely new player must be from Waterdeep due to kismet requirements for other hometowns), what with all the easily obtainable quests out and about.

That said, I'm a bit mystified about why the old price-lowering quest was removed in the first place.

Logically speaking this quest actually makes considerably more sense than most, in terms of being done again and again by different PCs: ie. the fighter's guild had a long-standing contract with the Harpells to keep hostile griffons from the mountains to the SW from trashing their front lawn. Thus, new guildies can prove their worth with cash or with a combination of cash and service (which saves the guild the expense of having to send a proper member up to deal with the latest griffon thugs).

Granted this implies a certain mercenary element to the guild, however, is it really better to instead deliberately make the guild as bland and generic as possible (to satisfy all PCs)? Doesn't seem worth it somehow.

[Selveem]

Doesn't seem worth it somehow.

That's what SHE said.

[Rictinta]

Alright I apologize then... as I am one of the old players who doesn't really care for stats... but anyways... if it is a matter of differences in HP... shouldn't we consider how long it takes for someone to join the ranger guild or become a paladin to get their bonus as well?

[Selveem]

Not really. Why should it be considered? It's widely published that you have to jump through hoops, spend countless hours hunting down people for lessons, and hope to the Gods that someone is willing to help you for either of those. If someone chooses that path, then they have already resolved their character to it. No one's forcing the character to stay that course, either. It's a personal decision. It's the same reason I never bothered.