Magic Weapon / Greater Magic Weapon Spells

[Brar]

Here is my suggestion:

Makes the spell Magic Weapon a level 1 spell that gives only +1 (like in the books) and have a very short duration of 1min/lvl (and virtually no component cost, use only the focus currentlt in game?)

Create the Greater Magic Weapon spell (the level 4 cleric, lvl 3 wizard) that gives from +1 to +5 and lasts 1h/lvl and have costly material components. (I would say the ones currently in the game).

Instead of the bastardized version we currently have for the spell in game.

[Gwain]

What does the current version we have in game entail?

[Brar]

What I think but I'm not 100% sure:
It is lvl 3 wizard, lvl 4 cleric
It lasts 1min/lvl (at novice it lasted less than a real life minute...)
It gives +1 / 4lvl enhancement bonus to weapon
It uses an expensive rare to get component as focus and multiple uses of another midly costly component.

So it is a mix between both version in my eyes.

Again, I'm not sure at all about that but I can't test it right now.

[Selveem]

Yeah, I can assure you the current version doesn't last an IC fight. I have it at novice and thought to start skilling it up, but honestly I'm only getting a +1 bonus so it's really not even worth the effort; especially when the in-game component costs a lot.

[Brar]

the in-game component costs a lot.

Let's not exagerate thing more than necessary, the focus costs a lot but the used component is a five-use one that cost in NPC shop at max 3 plat and from PCs you can get it for 2 gold max... and you can even get it free if you're up to it...

[Selveem]

You're right, my bad. I did not know the diamond was only a focus (and had bought five, thinking it was a regular component). But the length is definitely really short.

[Gwain]

One thing I would add that it is impossible to tell when the spell is up or if the object is magical still. At least this used to be the case. Is this still true?

[Brar]

Scoresheet is the only way to check. It shoul add a magical flag to the weapon I think, that would make sense.

[Eltsac]

To me, the 'magic weapon' should surely add a magical flag on the weapon.
An enchanted weapon should be able to pass through damage reduction against non magic weapons.

On the other hand, I don't know if it should be possible for someone who hasn't detect magic to know if it's still enchanted or not (examining it or a light glow on the item short desc)

El

[Brar]

After testing, at grandmaster, the spell last approx. 3 RL minutes, which would be approx. 30 IG minutes, so I think we can say that it has the duration of the standard Magic Weapon spell (ie 1min/caster level) while having the effect and level of the Greater Magic Weapon spell.

However, if it is changed to increase the duration to suits the Greater Magic Weapon spell (ie 1h/lvl), I would also advice to change the component comsuption rate and makes the 5-use component a 1-use as it will lasts a very long time and would gives some meaning to the spell instead of a free virtually free ever on buffing spell.

[Eltsac]

If we want to make it the greater magic weapon spell like in the book, bonus should be updated too (and not stick to +1)

El

[Athon]

While Brar's argument is completely sound and I'm all for spells following the book...

I believe it would be very unfair and would upset me, as a player, if greater magic weapon was implemented into the game (at full effect) while all the magical weapons in the game are +1/+1.

Specifically, fighters are already at a big disadvantage since they are so depedent on their weapon, yet are hampered by weapons being at best +1/+1. We also don't have nearly as many feats as we should. And now we're going to give priests (and mages, but they're not as big of a deal) the potential to have +5/+5 from a mundane weapon? Priests, if buffed properly, can do some devastating combat damage already in FK - giving them +5/+5 will make them very good in combat. Better than fighters, actually.

[Selveem]

We also don't have nearly as many feats as we should.

I believe you're talking about feats being available, not the amount of feats fighters are supposed while leveling up, right?

I understand your sentiment. I love Fighters best but really on FK they're second-class citizens; if that. I would agree that I really would prefer to see higher-powered spells await until other classes are given a bit of a boost (such as weapons and armor in-game, Druids fixed, Rogues more stuff in general, etc.) Priests are already the highest on the food chain and wizards directly thereafter.

[Athon]

I believe you're talking about feats being available, not the amount of feats fighters are supposed while leveling up, right?

I don't mean to derail this thread, but the difficulty in obtaining greater focus/spec for most weapons and the fact that many fighters don't even have enough feats to reach that far are issues in my eyes.

I'm all for suggestions to make classes work better and have things work better/by the book. But I want fairness and balance to be considered when these topics are addressed.

My dwarven cleric, for example, can achieve +10/+11 just from buffs and a +1/+1 weapon. If he used greater magic weapon on a mundane weapon, he'd be at +14/+15. Consider that clerics get three attacks that have equivalent hit bonuses to fighter.

Moranall, on the other hand, is at +11/+4 with power attack and weapon focus/spec. That's three feats devoted to a single weapon and it still doesn't compare to a priest with self-buffs. Yes, we get 4th and 5th attacks, but against anything of equivalent level and 20+ AC, my fifth attack will almost never hit and my 4th will rarely hit.

I'm not trying to cry "nerf priests" here, I'm just stating that anything above +1/+1 for a magic weapon spell should not be implemented until other weapon issues are addressed.

[Eltsac]

I understand your point about big enchanted weapons and armor missing in game and the hit bonus problems

In fact I thought about that spell as a mage, who doesn't care about enchanting his own weapon but would rather enchant the weapons of his adventure companions :p I was more seeing this spell as a bonus for a whole party, not a bonus for a caster alone

Anyway the 'magic weapon' bonus can be fix after the other problems (weapons / armors / hit...), as those are more important to fix.
But it would be great to have the duration improved if it's not a too big deal

El

[Selveem]

I definitely agree duration should be raised in the meantime. By the time you cast it on someone's weapon, give it to them, they wield it, and you go into the fray.. it's off by the end of the fight.

Add in RP and you won't even get to fight before it's off.

[Brar]

I believe you're talking about feats being available, not the amount of feats fighters are supposed while leveling up, right?

I don't mean to derail this thread, but the difficulty in obtaining greater focus/spec for most weapons and the fact that many fighters don't even have enough feats to reach that far are issues in my eyes.

I'm all for suggestions to make classes work better and have things work better/by the book. But I want fairness and balance to be considered when these topics are addressed.

My dwarven cleric, for example, can achieve +10/+11 just from buffs and a +1/+1 weapon. If he used greater magic weapon on a mundane weapon, he'd be at +14/+15. Consider that clerics get three attacks that have equivalent hit bonuses to fighter.

Moranall, on the other hand, is at +11/+4 with power attack and weapon focus/spec. That's three feats devoted to a single weapon and it still doesn't compare to a priest with self-buffs. Yes, we get 4th and 5th attacks, but against anything of equivalent level and 20+ AC, my fifth attack will almost never hit and my 4th will rarely hit.

I'm not trying to cry "nerf priests" here, I'm just stating that anything above +1/+1 for a magic weapon spell should not be implemented until other weapon issues are addressed.

...... That's a pure soloing point of view that's a bit sad in my eyes...
Now imagine a fighter being buffed by a priest and / or a wizards and the fighters outclass both in terms of damage as it should be...

The main correction that should be taking place right now and the most important one in my eyes are Base Attack Bonus correction based on class, that will already makes a huge difference between Clerics and Warriors, it's already been suggested in another post.

The rest falls down again to the discussion between party play and solo play and I don't think it is worth going down that line again for another sterile discussion like we had ten dozens of time already so I guess we'll stick to higher duration for now

[Raona]

I think I see a typo in the timing calculation on magic weapon, but I can not fix it myself. Putting it in as bug 966, and moving this to Confirmed Bugs, for now.

[Raona]

The duration of this spell has been increased to match SRD canon. It should last about twice as long, now. No other changes have been made; should this post now move to suggestions (i.e. is Greater Magic Weapon still a valid suggestions)? Is there anything else people agree upon to come out of this discussion?