Hey everyone,
I've been sort of scouring the boards for newb-info since I joined not too long ago, and I noticed that a couple other players had offered their perspectives as newbies, and thought I might do the same.
My background: I have never played a MUD before, never played D&D or any other table-top game, and have zero experience with Forgotten Realms in any form. I have been MUSHing for some years now, but have only played on one or two games that have any sort of coded stats or combat system, and they were used minimally. I tend to play on very-lightly-coded games with very small grids and fairly small player-bases. So basically, I am just about as much of a newb as you are likely to find these days (who is not also 13 and just discovering that text games exist).
First off, I just want to say that everyone I have encountered on the game so far has been lovely. People have been very understanding OOCly when I screw things up/have no idea what I am doing, and they've been approachable and helpful ICly, pointing my PC in the right direction, helping take him places, giving him things, etc. All of my interactions with other PCs and staff so far have been really pleasant and welcoming, which has made this transition a lot less frustrating than I thought it might be.
There are a couple thoughts that I've had over the last week or two that I wanted to share. Some of these suggestions have probably been debated before, so I apologize if I'm unoriginal.
- The help files, particularly the very basic 'have you never used a MUD before? these are the commands' type stuff could be easier to find, especially on the website. I would suggest that on the 'play' page, there be a link to the 'basic commands' help file or, even better, a dedicated 'new to MUDs' help file that tells you things like 'you need a special client, not just your MUSH client' and 'this is how to turn off VT100 if your screen looks crazy even after you've gotten a MUD client' and 'we don't have channels, we have 'ask' for questions' and things like that. The first time I tried to log on, I was so totally baffled by the garbled layout on my screen (in SimpleMU, because I assumed all text-games were basically the same) and the fact that sometimes 'c' got me 'continue' like I expected and sometimes it made me a gnome even though I could no longer see any dialogue asking me if I wanted to be a gnome, that I gave up and logged out and didn't try again for months.
- Some of the helpfiles are more ominous than strictly helpful. For instance, the one on feats makes a very strong point that if you choose the wrong feats early on, you could totally ruin your character, cutting off avenues for development that you probably want to take him down, and nobody will give you a refund for any reason. This is good to know. However, nowhere have I been able to find any information about what sort of feats are the 'wrong' ones, so I've remained paralyzed by the fear of ignorantly screwing up my PC and just not chosen any yet. I think that it would be really useful for new players, especially those without a strong MUD or D&D background if there were some sort of more-comprehensive helpfile on the various paths your char can take, and how skills and feats play into each of them. Like 'are you interested in becoming X? you should possibly consider some combination of feats A-E, and don't bother with feat K, because you'd never be able to use it anyway once you reached point L because of factor Q'. I realize that this is probably a pretty large sort of project, though.
- Express Deliveries is an awesome quest/series of quests. It gets you traveling around, encourages you to get other PCs to help you, and it pays pretty well. I do wish, though, that it started a little bit earlier. I'm not sure precisely what level it triggers at, but I know that level 5 it told me to come back later. I suggest this because the lowest 1-feather quests within Waterdeep are the sort of things that even someone below level 5 could do, and the OOC help coded in (explaining how interacting with mobs works, how to give and take objects, etc.) is the sort of stuff that I'd already learned by the time I was able to accept these jobs, but which would've been really useful to me earlier. Maybe I just ventured out of the temple too early, but given that Waterdeep is a 'safe zone', and that you can go back and forth from the temple freely, I'm not sure why people shouldn't. The sooner we get out and RPing the better, right? And being told 'sorry, come back when you're stronger' just encourages me to stay in the temple and bash more dummies.
- I saw a comment elsewhere suggesting removing the fee for using a bank before you have 50 or 100 platinum. I would whole-heartedly second this. As a low-level char with limited opportunities for earning coin, every single copper counts, and there's just no way I'm going to use a bank if it's going to take some of them. But it would be really nice to be able to use a bank.
- On a similar sort of note, but something I feel less strongly about: stabling fees. They are high. I get that low-level PCs like mine do not generally have mounts, but there are some that are pretty cheap, and also sometimes other PCs are kind enough to give them as gifts. This is awesome. Having to pay 4 gold to stable them is not. Having the stablemasters take only exact change and refuse to give change when you hand them a platinum is even less awesome.
- On another related note, storage: could there be some in Waterdeep, please? I know there is some sort of storage facility in Shadowdale, but that is very far away, and would still be inconvenient even if it weren't like that I would die trying to get there. But how much stuff can a new PC possibly have? you ask. My answer: a lot. There is so much stuff in this game, which is really cool. I love the massive variety of objects. I want to pick up and keep everything I find. Especially as a new player, I'm extremely reluctant to get rid of anything I come across, because I have no idea whether it may be useful for some purpose later on, or valuable to someone I haven't met yet. I already have about as much stuff as my mount and I can carry, and I'm not even level 10 yet, and my character is relatively strong. It would be really really helpful if there were a storage facility in Waterdeep where I could put some of it, and be able to go back and forth exchanging different things for different missions, etc. This ties in with the stabling thing a little in that at the moment, I'm having to store stuff on my mount, which makes me even more reluctant to pay to stable him, since then if I need to grab one of the things he's carrying, I have to pay all over again. That 4 gold adds up really fast, especially when you are scrimping and saving to be able to afford your first set of chainmail.
- A recruitment thought: I've seen a few threads here about how staff really wants the game to be focused on RP rather than leveling, and a few other threads on how to attract new players. My suggestion: look more to MUSHers. I think it's a lot easier to convince somebody who loves to RP that going on quests and winning objects is fun too than it is to convince someone who just wants to code-kill monsters that chatting about killing monsters is also fun. Personally I've found this a nice new twist on things, both an escape from some of the hassles and pressures of RP-only MUSHes, but not at all what I had always envisioned a MUD to be, which was a bunch of illiterates typing 'kill kill kill kill' all day. (Sorry.) If this isn't a player-base that you're already trying to tap into, I think it should be, though I think that would make my first couple suggestions about newb-help even more important to streamline conversions.
TL;DR version (because wow that got long, apologies): The game is awesome. I am cheap. I would like things to be cheaper for new PCs. I want them to be able to earn money sooner, bank it without paying for it, and have a place to put stuff that is (you guessed it) cheap and local. Also you should try recruiting more MUSHers, and make it easier for us to figure out wth to do when first starting out.
Thoughts from a New Player
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Tyrrell,
Thank you for taking the time to comment and provide your perspective so that we might try to make the changes to draw in new players, old players, and retain current ones. I think it's wonderful that new players are being kind enough to offer their experience and suggestions as to how they felt it could have been better.
As you might imagine, as older players, we can only guess some of the features that would be considered annoyances (or other type of disengaging elements). Some of us have been here so long we have a difficult time even envisioning if/how the MUD should be different.
You made a lot of points that were already debated, which is actually a really good thing; it means we're still doing a decent job at trying to imagine some hurdles you'll encounter and that many players would like them changed. On the other hand, you brought up some I'd not even thought of!
With regards to feats, there are no wrong feats. What the helpfile does a poor job of explaining is that your choices on feats are finite; that your character may evolve and a feat or feats you took may become less useful. An example of this is my Dwarf, Torand, who I wanted to be a riposte specialist (which there were none in the game). To do that, I had to specialize in rapiers. I took Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization for thrusting blades. Later, it came to the surface that riposte skill doesn't (ever) even work and I had wasted my time attempting it, so I gradually changed weapons making my thrusting blades focus and specialization no longer have any impact on my character. The feats are not wasted, but will almost never be useful now.
Re: Recruitment: As far as recruitment, you have a very valid point. My background before FK started with a MUD called Abyssial Travels, which had very, very little RP (though, it did occur) and loooooooooots of PVP. Admittedly, I was good at it. Really good at it. Eventually the MUD shut down and I started playing new ones. The one I played before this, was a nice combination of RP and PVP. Eventually one of the Imm staff brought me here and I was hooked. Especially due to the high D&D influence (which, gradually, became far more prevalent). Looking back, it WOULD have been pretty difficult to bring players from a MUD like Abyssial Travels to a game like this where RP is in the bones and PVP happens rarely.
Re: Helpfiles: I assist with the helpfiles, though my time lately has been limited so I just fix things as I encounter them. Can you make suggestions as to which helpfiles you've encountered that you would like to see modified? I can't promise I'll get to all of them, but we've got Raona and a few others who are exceptionally attentive to ensuring helpfiles get updated.
Re: Prices: I've long had an issue with the cost of things. Simple things, even, cost platinum. This is way far removed from the cost of most things in D&D. In D&D, a gallon of ale only costs 2 silver. In FK, you'll find some single mugs of beer that are over 5 silvers and single bottles of liquor that cost over 20 platinum! I'm really not a fan of such things and do truly feel the weight of these costs on new players as I have looots of low characters. Even though I know how to obtain money, I glare when I see how little of it I have left after buying a non-masterwork, mundane weapon for more than 23 gold that should cost me 15 gold. That may no seem like a big difference, but it all adds up. Especially when coin is far harder to come by in FK than in D&D.
Thank you for taking the time to comment and provide your perspective so that we might try to make the changes to draw in new players, old players, and retain current ones. I think it's wonderful that new players are being kind enough to offer their experience and suggestions as to how they felt it could have been better.
As you might imagine, as older players, we can only guess some of the features that would be considered annoyances (or other type of disengaging elements). Some of us have been here so long we have a difficult time even envisioning if/how the MUD should be different.
You made a lot of points that were already debated, which is actually a really good thing; it means we're still doing a decent job at trying to imagine some hurdles you'll encounter and that many players would like them changed. On the other hand, you brought up some I'd not even thought of!
With regards to feats, there are no wrong feats. What the helpfile does a poor job of explaining is that your choices on feats are finite; that your character may evolve and a feat or feats you took may become less useful. An example of this is my Dwarf, Torand, who I wanted to be a riposte specialist (which there were none in the game). To do that, I had to specialize in rapiers. I took Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization for thrusting blades. Later, it came to the surface that riposte skill doesn't (ever) even work and I had wasted my time attempting it, so I gradually changed weapons making my thrusting blades focus and specialization no longer have any impact on my character. The feats are not wasted, but will almost never be useful now.
Re: Recruitment: As far as recruitment, you have a very valid point. My background before FK started with a MUD called Abyssial Travels, which had very, very little RP (though, it did occur) and loooooooooots of PVP. Admittedly, I was good at it. Really good at it. Eventually the MUD shut down and I started playing new ones. The one I played before this, was a nice combination of RP and PVP. Eventually one of the Imm staff brought me here and I was hooked. Especially due to the high D&D influence (which, gradually, became far more prevalent). Looking back, it WOULD have been pretty difficult to bring players from a MUD like Abyssial Travels to a game like this where RP is in the bones and PVP happens rarely.
Re: Helpfiles: I assist with the helpfiles, though my time lately has been limited so I just fix things as I encounter them. Can you make suggestions as to which helpfiles you've encountered that you would like to see modified? I can't promise I'll get to all of them, but we've got Raona and a few others who are exceptionally attentive to ensuring helpfiles get updated.
Re: Prices: I've long had an issue with the cost of things. Simple things, even, cost platinum. This is way far removed from the cost of most things in D&D. In D&D, a gallon of ale only costs 2 silver. In FK, you'll find some single mugs of beer that are over 5 silvers and single bottles of liquor that cost over 20 platinum! I'm really not a fan of such things and do truly feel the weight of these costs on new players as I have looots of low characters. Even though I know how to obtain money, I glare when I see how little of it I have left after buying a non-masterwork, mundane weapon for more than 23 gold that should cost me 15 gold. That may no seem like a big difference, but it all adds up. Especially when coin is far harder to come by in FK than in D&D.
This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. -Ninety-Nine Nights
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Hey Selveem,
You're welcome! I'm happy to do it, since I think it's great how much this game seems to encourage and respond to player comments, at least from what I've seen on these boards. That you guys care enough to wonder what issues there are for new players and to still be actively developing the game and its systems after (what I'm told are) so many years is pretty cool.
A couple responses:
Re: helpfiles: I should have started keeping a list or something earlier on, because specifics have mostly slipped my mind, beyond that example on the feats file. There are a few I've encountered that seem to be out of date, though, like there's the 'Mental State' file that I'm told refers to a field on the score sheet that no longer exists, and the files on the main stats still refer to the Inept/Apprentice/Etc. levels which you can no longer see since they're replaced with numbers only. I spent a while trying to figure out how to see what adjective went with my INT number, etc., before finally asking and being told that's not around anymore.
Speaking of those mainstat numbers, I'm not sure I've actually found anywhere where it tells you what the scale is for them. Is it up to 18? Up to 20? Unlimited? I think it would be useful to have some sort of rubric somewhere, either comparing the #s to those old adjectives or at least saying what the scale is you're working on, so that when you're choosing where to spend points in CG (and afterwards) you have some stronger sense of what you're really doing... at least for those of us who haven't been playing with these dice for years. Like, how low can I make my INT before I should really be playing my char as mentally disabled to justify it? Have I made my STR average, or above-average, or Olympic weightlifter?
Re: feats: That's exactly the sort of thing I'm concerned about, I guess. My impression so far, from helpfiles and the forum, is that there are at least a few feats/skills/weapons/etc. that exist on the lists but don't actually exist in the game. Either they don't work or there is nobody to train them, or something like that. I think it would be really good to know what these are. If they don't work, can't they be taken off the list? Or a list made, saying, like, 'these two feats don't work at all, these two work but will take you 10 RL years to see any result in, and these two work but their next levels don't exist, so you may not want to bother if that was the path you were hoping to go down with them'. I think this is the sort of info that long-time players have already accumulated over time and experience, but which it would be good for newbs to have access to as well. ETA: Like the thread I just noticed a few rows down on this forum, for instance!
Re: prices: Yeah, it's a little frustrating, though it does seem to get better over time, at least. Mostly (in my case right now) because the Express Deliveries (which I really want to abbreviate, but 'ED' just looks wrong) gig pays pretty well. Before I was able to do that, though, I was just sort of wandering around exploring Waterdeep, which is cool, and I kept getting offered random quests (which is also cool) except they all seemed to involve me laying out coin to acquire something for somebody. Not only could I not afford the 10 plat to get the crate of ale for the innkeeper (I still can't, really), but why would I want to spend that much with no idea of whether I'd get anything back from them? It was a little frustrating that every quest I encountered for a while seemed to be of this type, when I was in no position to see any of them through. I like the idea of wandering around tracking down objects, it's a good way to learn Waterdeep, but the cost of it is prohibitive for new PCs (or was for me, at least).
You're welcome! I'm happy to do it, since I think it's great how much this game seems to encourage and respond to player comments, at least from what I've seen on these boards. That you guys care enough to wonder what issues there are for new players and to still be actively developing the game and its systems after (what I'm told are) so many years is pretty cool.
A couple responses:
Re: helpfiles: I should have started keeping a list or something earlier on, because specifics have mostly slipped my mind, beyond that example on the feats file. There are a few I've encountered that seem to be out of date, though, like there's the 'Mental State' file that I'm told refers to a field on the score sheet that no longer exists, and the files on the main stats still refer to the Inept/Apprentice/Etc. levels which you can no longer see since they're replaced with numbers only. I spent a while trying to figure out how to see what adjective went with my INT number, etc., before finally asking and being told that's not around anymore.
Speaking of those mainstat numbers, I'm not sure I've actually found anywhere where it tells you what the scale is for them. Is it up to 18? Up to 20? Unlimited? I think it would be useful to have some sort of rubric somewhere, either comparing the #s to those old adjectives or at least saying what the scale is you're working on, so that when you're choosing where to spend points in CG (and afterwards) you have some stronger sense of what you're really doing... at least for those of us who haven't been playing with these dice for years. Like, how low can I make my INT before I should really be playing my char as mentally disabled to justify it? Have I made my STR average, or above-average, or Olympic weightlifter?
Re: feats: That's exactly the sort of thing I'm concerned about, I guess. My impression so far, from helpfiles and the forum, is that there are at least a few feats/skills/weapons/etc. that exist on the lists but don't actually exist in the game. Either they don't work or there is nobody to train them, or something like that. I think it would be really good to know what these are. If they don't work, can't they be taken off the list? Or a list made, saying, like, 'these two feats don't work at all, these two work but will take you 10 RL years to see any result in, and these two work but their next levels don't exist, so you may not want to bother if that was the path you were hoping to go down with them'. I think this is the sort of info that long-time players have already accumulated over time and experience, but which it would be good for newbs to have access to as well. ETA: Like the thread I just noticed a few rows down on this forum, for instance!
Re: prices: Yeah, it's a little frustrating, though it does seem to get better over time, at least. Mostly (in my case right now) because the Express Deliveries (which I really want to abbreviate, but 'ED' just looks wrong) gig pays pretty well. Before I was able to do that, though, I was just sort of wandering around exploring Waterdeep, which is cool, and I kept getting offered random quests (which is also cool) except they all seemed to involve me laying out coin to acquire something for somebody. Not only could I not afford the 10 plat to get the crate of ale for the innkeeper (I still can't, really), but why would I want to spend that much with no idea of whether I'd get anything back from them? It was a little frustrating that every quest I encountered for a while seemed to be of this type, when I was in no position to see any of them through. I like the idea of wandering around tracking down objects, it's a good way to learn Waterdeep, but the cost of it is prohibitive for new PCs (or was for me, at least).
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Because I haven't written enough already, a couple other things that I've remembered/encountered since posting:
1) How come things like shirts are classed as armour? I don't mean things that are 'padded' or anything like that, or even something like a tabard that you wear over armour. Just a normal shirt. Shouldn't this be something you can wear beneath your armour?
2) I read somewhere that there are three 'belt' slots, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use more than two. I've tried every possible order of loop(s), scabbard(s), and pouch, and can never get more than two at a time. I've got an entire belt, and I can't put more than two things on it? Help.
3) The School of Combat in Waterdeep costs 15 platinum. I just discovered this yesterday when I reached level 10 and went to join. I spent my entire savings on that fee only to discover when I finally got inside that nearly everything being trained there was something I had already trained elsewhere. They don't train things like 'doorbash' which is the only fighter-specific skill I'm currently eligible to learn, and nor do they offer more than maybe one or two feats that I haven't seen elsewhere in the city as well. In short, I'm feeling a little bit ripped off. I realize that the main reason to join the school is more just to become a fighter as opposed to what the school itself actually offers training-wise, but I had sort of gotten my hopes up that once I got in there, all sorts of new possibilities would be offered to me, and it was disappointing to find that that was not really the case. I think that if adding more stuff to the School is not preferred, then maybe could it be possible to tour around it before joining? Not to train, but just to see what's offered there before you sink your money in. It would cut down on the anticipointment. (Yeah, I know that's not a real word, but I think it's pretty descriptive anyway.) Also, just to continue my themes from earlier, it'd be nice if it were cheaper. 15 plat for a level 10 char is a LOT.
4) There is some sort of order devoted to turtles! That is hilarious and awesome. I stumbled across it last night, and am contemplating riding a turtle around the realms from now on. Can turtles fight? I wonder.
1) How come things like shirts are classed as armour? I don't mean things that are 'padded' or anything like that, or even something like a tabard that you wear over armour. Just a normal shirt. Shouldn't this be something you can wear beneath your armour?
2) I read somewhere that there are three 'belt' slots, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use more than two. I've tried every possible order of loop(s), scabbard(s), and pouch, and can never get more than two at a time. I've got an entire belt, and I can't put more than two things on it? Help.
3) The School of Combat in Waterdeep costs 15 platinum. I just discovered this yesterday when I reached level 10 and went to join. I spent my entire savings on that fee only to discover when I finally got inside that nearly everything being trained there was something I had already trained elsewhere. They don't train things like 'doorbash' which is the only fighter-specific skill I'm currently eligible to learn, and nor do they offer more than maybe one or two feats that I haven't seen elsewhere in the city as well. In short, I'm feeling a little bit ripped off. I realize that the main reason to join the school is more just to become a fighter as opposed to what the school itself actually offers training-wise, but I had sort of gotten my hopes up that once I got in there, all sorts of new possibilities would be offered to me, and it was disappointing to find that that was not really the case. I think that if adding more stuff to the School is not preferred, then maybe could it be possible to tour around it before joining? Not to train, but just to see what's offered there before you sink your money in. It would cut down on the anticipointment. (Yeah, I know that's not a real word, but I think it's pretty descriptive anyway.) Also, just to continue my themes from earlier, it'd be nice if it were cheaper. 15 plat for a level 10 char is a LOT.
4) There is some sort of order devoted to turtles! That is hilarious and awesome. I stumbled across it last night, and am contemplating riding a turtle around the realms from now on. Can turtles fight? I wonder.
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Re: Misflagged "Armor": Unfortunately you'll probably run into quite a bit of this. There was a hard code change a little while ago that changed a lot of the armors' types. Previously, things were just labeled as non-armor, light armor, medium armor, or heavy armor. Now, they're all broken up into their various subtypes. But, when this happened, a lot of armor got misflagged. I consistently run into 'plate armor' that is classed as half plate, because when things were changed, there was nearly no armor that was granted 'full plate' status, including one of the rewards from a very difficult area (I'm still fighting the whole 'mithral plate' becoming 'mithral half plate!'). As you run into these, there are a few threads to report them. The most prominent one was here. That is, if you want to report them.
Re: Belt Slots: That used to be the case, however you're going to be hard-pressed to find many things that layer into three different slots. There was a change (noted above in the hyperlink for misflagged armor) that affected belt slots similarly. My wizard had 2 spell pouches and a bag on his belt slot, now two of the spell pouches cannot be layered. There are some things that go 'close' on the belt slot, such as money pouches. There are some things that go on the middle and outer layers of the belt slots like scabbards. You just have to search far and wide for them. I don't see why they have to go to a specific wear location. I think you should be able to set where you're wearing it while wearing it: wear scabbard belt 1 (or inner).. something like that.
Re: Coin For Joining Guilds: Repeatedly bankrupting lowbies.. That's been a sore subject for me for quite some time. Your chances to earn platinum coins as a lowbie are finite. You've already discovered the quest that seems to help the most, but if one doesn't know they're going to be expected to cough up all their coin later on, they could have already spent it on armor or a new weapon. This was something that was discussed here.
Re: Belt Slots: That used to be the case, however you're going to be hard-pressed to find many things that layer into three different slots. There was a change (noted above in the hyperlink for misflagged armor) that affected belt slots similarly. My wizard had 2 spell pouches and a bag on his belt slot, now two of the spell pouches cannot be layered. There are some things that go 'close' on the belt slot, such as money pouches. There are some things that go on the middle and outer layers of the belt slots like scabbards. You just have to search far and wide for them. I don't see why they have to go to a specific wear location. I think you should be able to set where you're wearing it while wearing it: wear scabbard belt 1 (or inner).. something like that.
Re: Coin For Joining Guilds: Repeatedly bankrupting lowbies.. That's been a sore subject for me for quite some time. Your chances to earn platinum coins as a lowbie are finite. You've already discovered the quest that seems to help the most, but if one doesn't know they're going to be expected to cough up all their coin later on, they could have already spent it on armor or a new weapon. This was something that was discussed here.
This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. -Ninety-Nine Nights
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
And another 20 plat if you want to join the fighters' academy in Westgate, again without any idea of what's actually inside? No wonder there are so many bandits on the roads.
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
There are actually quests available to curve the price of some guilds. Costs aside, I can tell you its not a desire or a must to gouge new players with prices but instead to challenge them to find alternative means. I don't know if said quests are still available, but often or not they provide viable alternatives to paying through the nose.
Justice is not neccesarily honourable, it is a tolerable business, in essence you tolerate honour until it impedes justice, then you do what is right.
Spelling is not necessarily correct
Spelling is not necessarily correct
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Not for the WD Fighter's guild. The quest was removed as the quest area was removed from the game. Westgate has no quest to lower the cost of joining, either.Gwain wrote:There are actually quests available to curve the price of some guilds. Costs aside, I can tell you its not a desire or a must to gouge new players with prices but instead to challenge them to find alternative means. I don't know if said quests are still available, but often or not they provide viable alternatives to paying through the nose.
This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. -Ninety-Nine Nights
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
A quest to lower the cost of entry to things like the Fighters Guilds would be great, that sounds like a good way to give people the option of paying if they have the coin or not if they don't. It is definitely an option I would have taken advantage of. More quests is always better, it seems to me! After all, this is an adventure game, not a shopping game. (Though the shopping is pretty fun too, somehow.)
And just to be clear, I never meant to imply that it is a policy or desire of the game to rip low-level chars off. I'm sure that it isn't. I just wanted to point out that there are a few things that I think it would be nice to have be cheaper. If my mild frustration came off stronger, I apologize. It would ICly explain all the bandits, though! They're just wannabe fighters, desperate to pull together the plat to join the guild, turned to banditry in a time of troubled economies. Maybe there's a quest idea in this somewhere....
And just to be clear, I never meant to imply that it is a policy or desire of the game to rip low-level chars off. I'm sure that it isn't. I just wanted to point out that there are a few things that I think it would be nice to have be cheaper. If my mild frustration came off stronger, I apologize. It would ICly explain all the bandits, though! They're just wannabe fighters, desperate to pull together the plat to join the guild, turned to banditry in a time of troubled economies. Maybe there's a quest idea in this somewhere....
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
I'm hopeful that when the area is revamped or updated there will be a new quest or objective in place.
Justice is not neccesarily honourable, it is a tolerable business, in essence you tolerate honour until it impedes justice, then you do what is right.
Spelling is not necessarily correct
Spelling is not necessarily correct
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Speaking of, has anyone volunteered to overhaul the area yet? If not, I am most definitely down to take that.
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Raona
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Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Tyrrell, thank you for your thoughtful reflection, great ideas, and encouraging words. I kinda need the latter after being reminded of some of the monsters we still have to attack!
I will try to come back to this post regularly for both inspiration and as a to-do list - your suggestions are great, but there is so much to do! But stat helpfiles, in particular, need an overhaul in light of the major changes recently made in the SCORE sheet, and helpfiles more generally need work.
I'll take this opportunity to ask anyone with the time and inclination to volunteer (by PM to me) to help with the helpfile system - it is a never-ending task, but that's a good thing, because it means the game is constantly evolving.
I will try to come back to this post regularly for both inspiration and as a to-do list - your suggestions are great, but there is so much to do! But stat helpfiles, in particular, need an overhaul in light of the major changes recently made in the SCORE sheet, and helpfiles more generally need work.
I'll take this opportunity to ask anyone with the time and inclination to volunteer (by PM to me) to help with the helpfile system - it is a never-ending task, but that's a good thing, because it means the game is constantly evolving.
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Hi Tyrell. Welcome aboard. Like Raona, I found your comments to be great food for thought and I sincerely appreciate them.
An object that is type ARMOR can still be worn under another item potentially. Each item has a layer (OVER, UNDER, ARMOR, or ALL) and that can vary according to the specific characteristics of the object and the preferences of the builder who made it. There may be some cases, as Selveem pointed out, where you believe that there is an error with an object's type or layer and you should feel free to bring those up for discussion.
This is not an error, but how the game's code works. Objects come in only a few categories so, for clothing, your options are ARMOR, CONTAINER, or TRASH (which basically means miscellaneous). It makes the most sense for a common garment without pockets to just be armor that is made of cloth, velvet, silk, or whichever the appropriate material is.1) How come things like shirts are classed as armour? I don't mean things that are 'padded' or anything like that, or even something like a tabard that you wear over armour. Just a normal shirt. Shouldn't this be something you can wear beneath your armour?
An object that is type ARMOR can still be worn under another item potentially. Each item has a layer (OVER, UNDER, ARMOR, or ALL) and that can vary according to the specific characteristics of the object and the preferences of the builder who made it. There may be some cases, as Selveem pointed out, where you believe that there is an error with an object's type or layer and you should feel free to bring those up for discussion.
There is one belt wear location that is "layerable". So, ideally, you could wear three items if one was set for the OVER layer, one for the UNDER layer, and one for the ARMOR layer. The trouble is that there is not a set convention for belt items and so while one builder might make his pouch OVER it is entirely possible that another's pouch might be ARMOR. Hence the trouble here. There's not really a good answer here except that it is possible, but only with a suitably layered set of gear.2) I read somewhere that there are three 'belt' slots, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use more than two. I've tried every possible order of loop(s), scabbard(s), and pouch, and can never get more than two at a time. I've got an entire belt, and I can't put more than two things on it? Help.
Sure. I will get to work on this soon.- On another related note, storage: could there be some in Waterdeep, please?
This varies between cities. Waterdeep, the City of Splendors, is a snobbish and very wealthy city where they would probably try to gouge you. (Of course, Volo reports in VGtWD that the Gentlerest's stable master chops up horses for his stew too...) I believe that it's a valid point though and so the staff will discuss lowering these. (Emphasis, if you please, on discuss.)- On a similar sort of note, but something I feel less strongly about: stabling fees.
I had no idea what I was doing when I made Harroghty in 2004 and he turned out all right. Don't sweat this too much.For instance, the one on feats makes a very strong point that if you choose the wrong feats early on, you could totally ruin your character, cutting off avenues for development that you probably want to take him down, and nobody will give you a refund for any reason.
I recently revised some help files and I would love to have some feedback from you on them. Please take a look at HELP RULES and let me know if that makes sense to you? If so, please recommend the kind of things that you would like to see covered in that fashion. If not, what would be more helpful to you? Also, what kind of stuff would you like to see on the webpage? A FAQ? A little walk-through?Some of the helpfiles are more ominous than strictly helpful.
"A man may die yet still endure if his work enters the greater work, for time is carried upon a current of forgotten deeds, and events of great moment are but the culmination of a single carefully placed thought." - Chime of Eons
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Re: armour, fair enough. While I find it sort of odd that a shirt would end up in the armour classification, I can understand that that is just how the system works, and in the end it was more of a 'really? wth?' sort of thing rather than something that I think is actually important. If the options are armour, container, or trash, then yeah, I guess it's just armour. God knows I don't know anything about coding, so I will take your word for it that that's how it needs to be. The same goes for the belt stuff, I guess. I will just keep searching for a scabbard/sheath/loop/pouch that works with the others and allows me three at a time and in the meantime I'll just live with fewer weapons, I guess. Hardly the end of the world.
Re: stabling fees, I have noticed that this varies among cities, now that I have been to other cities. It is so cheap other places! Crazytimes. It does make IC sense that it would cost more in Waterdeep, I admit. Maybe the hitching posts that exist in Cormyr could exist in Waterdeep, too? They seem like sort of a nice intermediate solution, where you're not just leaving your horse on the street, but you're not paying 4 gold when you're going to get him back out ten minutes later. And if you leave your horse there for more than a few RL days or something it gets taken off to impound, or whatever? I'm not sure exactly how it would/could/should work, but it's an idea.
Re: feats, a player was kind enough to give me some advice on that front, which was great. I had just been concerned that my lack of understanding of how stats work and how to calculate things and lack of knowledge of the world/what exists and what doesn't and such would result in my picking all the wrong feats and preventing my PC from ever advancing, which would sort of suck. But people are very helpful here, so I'm less concerned about that, and beyond the basic guidance I've gotten, I'll just see what makes sense IC and go with that when I can.
Re: help files, 'help rules' seems very clear and straight-forward to me. I think the sort of thing that would have been helpful for me when just starting out would be sort of a 'Are you new to MUDing in general' kind of a file, which explains basic commands, and that you need a special MUD client, and how to use the help files and the 'ask' command and set up your display window and stuff like that. Because that is what I personally struggled with, was I had assumed that all text-based games were basically the same and that my MUSH client would work for a MUD (and it did not). And the interface got so screwed up that I couldn't even manage to make my way through the help files here enough to get to the bit where it might have told me to disable VT100 and how. For something like this to be effective, I think it should be linked off the homepage or the 'play' page on the website, because if you don't know how to use a MUD client in general, you will never find your way there on the game help files. I tried to use them, but ended up getting bits and pieces of help files and also choosing 'C' for all sorts of chargen menus, all unintentionally. This is probably a pretty rare issue for you guys, though. A little walk-through probably wouldn't hurt, at least of the main OOC commands, like how to use help files and ask and 'continue' 'back' '-', stuff like that. Most IC commands seem to get taught ICly one way or another. But again, I don't know how often this is an issue for this game, since my guess, at least, is that most of your players are less new to this system than I am.
Re: stabling fees, I have noticed that this varies among cities, now that I have been to other cities. It is so cheap other places! Crazytimes. It does make IC sense that it would cost more in Waterdeep, I admit. Maybe the hitching posts that exist in Cormyr could exist in Waterdeep, too? They seem like sort of a nice intermediate solution, where you're not just leaving your horse on the street, but you're not paying 4 gold when you're going to get him back out ten minutes later. And if you leave your horse there for more than a few RL days or something it gets taken off to impound, or whatever? I'm not sure exactly how it would/could/should work, but it's an idea.
Re: feats, a player was kind enough to give me some advice on that front, which was great. I had just been concerned that my lack of understanding of how stats work and how to calculate things and lack of knowledge of the world/what exists and what doesn't and such would result in my picking all the wrong feats and preventing my PC from ever advancing, which would sort of suck. But people are very helpful here, so I'm less concerned about that, and beyond the basic guidance I've gotten, I'll just see what makes sense IC and go with that when I can.
Re: help files, 'help rules' seems very clear and straight-forward to me. I think the sort of thing that would have been helpful for me when just starting out would be sort of a 'Are you new to MUDing in general' kind of a file, which explains basic commands, and that you need a special MUD client, and how to use the help files and the 'ask' command and set up your display window and stuff like that. Because that is what I personally struggled with, was I had assumed that all text-based games were basically the same and that my MUSH client would work for a MUD (and it did not). And the interface got so screwed up that I couldn't even manage to make my way through the help files here enough to get to the bit where it might have told me to disable VT100 and how. For something like this to be effective, I think it should be linked off the homepage or the 'play' page on the website, because if you don't know how to use a MUD client in general, you will never find your way there on the game help files. I tried to use them, but ended up getting bits and pieces of help files and also choosing 'C' for all sorts of chargen menus, all unintentionally. This is probably a pretty rare issue for you guys, though. A little walk-through probably wouldn't hurt, at least of the main OOC commands, like how to use help files and ask and 'continue' 'back' '-', stuff like that. Most IC commands seem to get taught ICly one way or another. But again, I don't know how often this is an issue for this game, since my guess, at least, is that most of your players are less new to this system than I am.
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
A brief update, having now played a bit longer.
In hindsight, maybe the prices aren't such an issue, since if you do the Express Deliveries quests and turn in bandit scalps and stuff, you can accumulate enough coin to buy your way into the guilds (as I did) and not go totally broke. It does seem to get a bit easier to acquire coin after you get above lvl 10 or so, and so my concerns about it totally bankrupting my char proved to be more or less unfounded, especially when there are so many PCs out there who are generous with their old odds and ends of equipment, and their time. Thanks to all of them! I continue to be impressed with how friendly and helpful people are to new players, it's really great.
Also, the note list posts placed in most of the cities, that have notices of major goings-on and such are helpful, too. It's nice to be reminded that there are plotlines on-going and what they are, so your char can talk about the news with folks and just sort of have more of a sense of this as a living, populated world, rather than just a map to be explored.
In hindsight, maybe the prices aren't such an issue, since if you do the Express Deliveries quests and turn in bandit scalps and stuff, you can accumulate enough coin to buy your way into the guilds (as I did) and not go totally broke. It does seem to get a bit easier to acquire coin after you get above lvl 10 or so, and so my concerns about it totally bankrupting my char proved to be more or less unfounded, especially when there are so many PCs out there who are generous with their old odds and ends of equipment, and their time. Thanks to all of them! I continue to be impressed with how friendly and helpful people are to new players, it's really great.
Also, the note list posts placed in most of the cities, that have notices of major goings-on and such are helpful, too. It's nice to be reminded that there are plotlines on-going and what they are, so your char can talk about the news with folks and just sort of have more of a sense of this as a living, populated world, rather than just a map to be explored.
Re: Thoughts from a New Player
Glad to see input! New players are always great they add flavor and make it all the better!
The belief in a supernatural evil is not necessary;
Men alone are quite capable of every wickedness.
-Joseph Conrad, Under Western Eyes
-Tofuergus Greenroot, Gnomish Ranger
Men alone are quite capable of every wickedness.
-Joseph Conrad, Under Western Eyes
-Tofuergus Greenroot, Gnomish Ranger