Fighter's guild multiple memberships

[Lyllee]

Is it intentional to be able to join the Waterdeep School of Combat, then the Gilded Lance in Westgate, but not the other way around?

[Harroghty]

Hi. Yes. You cannot be a fighter already and join Waterdeep or Zhentil Keep's fighter's guild. They are designed to create and train local fighters. The Gilded Lance is more of an add-on; it is a place where an already adept fighter can hone his or her skills.

[Lyllee]

That seems somewhat nonsensical. If the School of Combat in Waterdeep has such a problem with people being in other Fighter Guilds, why is there opposition to it only before someone joins the School of Combat? I mean, why don't they bar existing School of Combat members from joining other guilds?

I'm somewhat miffed about this (I took what the Gilded Lance recruiter said to mean that it didn't matter which order you join in), so please help me understand. I wanted my character to get training in different places as part of her back story.

[Mele]

Harroghty explains you cannot have been guilded via any of the fighter guilds, including the School of Combat and join either of the two specific guilds who build local fighters. So if you were to join the School of Combat, you would indeed not be allowed to join the Zhentil Keep guild. He goes on to mention that those specific guilds want to train local fighters, while the Guilded Lance is set to hone skills already earned. Thus, the Guilded Lance would take someone already belonging to a guild branch because they are not looking for local fighters, while the other two are specifically looking for local fighters and will not take others.


As a backstory is something that comes previous to a characters existence it is perfectly natural and acceptable to say you have trained many places. Ex: "I trained with a small group of fighters in Calimshan, a teacher of the guild in Waterdeep, a militia soldier from Daggerford, and I'm currently enrolled in the Guilded Lance." You're still in the clear for a backstory of your desire regardless of the current physical guilds said character can join.

[Lyllee]

Thanks for your reply, but it didn't address my issue with the School of Combat. I understand that the code lets you *join* the School of Combat, and then *join* the Gilded Lance, but not the other way around. It makes sense at the time of joining each why they behave that way.

What doesn't make sense is that the School of Combat prohibits those participating in other Fighters' Guilds from joining, but 2 seconds after someone joins the School of Combat they can just go join the Gilded Lance and there's *no penalty* from the School of Combat.

It's like not allowing murderers to join your organization, but if they commit a murder while they're already there - well, no punishment. It seems inconsistent, is all.

The reason I'm even concerned about this is that the join order shouldn't matter - what should matter is unique membership (for the School of Combat - I realize that the Gilded Lance doesn't care).

[Aldren]

I don't see how this is confusing. The WD guild takes local fighters. The ZK guild takes local fighters. The WG Gilded Lance doesn't care either way, they're all about honing what you already have trained.

I would personally be glad that the Gilded Lance is the best of the 3 as far as skills/quests/gear/awesomeness is involved.

You can RP whatever backstory you want so long as it fits into the confines of FK and FR. My fighter was a slave who won his freedom in the arena who went on to become an (un)holy champion cavalier of his God. No, there are no slave gladiatorial arenas in the game that he did this - this was part of his backstory.

[Althasizor]

It's like not allowing murderers to join your organization, but if they commit a murder while they're already there - well, no punishment. It seems inconsistent, is all.

It's more like if you joined a local fighter's guild built for training local warriors, and then left to train under a more prestigious guild.

The reason I'm even concerned about this is that the join order shouldn't matter - what should matter is unique membership (for the School of Combat - I realize that the Gilded Lance doesn't care).

For the same reason guilded wizards are still allowed in the School of Wonder, I would think. It makes sense.

[Lyllee]

It's like not allowing murderers to join your organization, but if they commit a murder while they're already there - well, no punishment. It seems inconsistent, is all.

It's more like if you joined a local fighter's guild built for training local warriors, and then left to train under a more prestigious guild.

Except that it's not, since you're still a member in the School of Combat even after you join the Gilded Lance. You haven't left anything. This is precisely my point. You're allowed to stay a member of the School of Combat.

[Lyllee]

I don't see how this is confusing. The WD guild takes local fighters. The ZK guild takes local fighters. The WG Gilded Lance doesn't care either way, they're all about honing what you already have trained.

Are you assuming that the WD guild doesn't allow people from hometowns other than WD? Because that's not true.

[Althasizor]

It's like not allowing murderers to join your organization, but if they commit a murder while they're already there - well, no punishment. It seems inconsistent, is all.

It's more like if you joined a local fighter's guild built for training local warriors, and then left to train under a more prestigious guild.

Except that it's not, since you're still a member in the School of Combat even after you join the Gilded Lance. You haven't left anything. This is precisely my point. You're allowed to stay a member of the School of Combat.

O...Kay? that's pretty irrelevant and not related to what was said. There's no reason why the School of Combat, designed to give training to the untrained, should disallow those they've already trained from remaining members. It's not car insurance.

Also, you ignored my second point intentionally because I already explained this.

[Lyllee]

It's more like if you joined a local fighter's guild built for training local warriors, and then left to train under a more prestigious guild.

Except that it's not, since you're still a member in the School of Combat even after you join the Gilded Lance. You haven't left anything. This is precisely my point. You're allowed to stay a member of the School of Combat.

O...Kay? that's pretty irrelevant and not related to what was said. There's no reason why the School of Combat, designed to give training to the untrained, should disallow those they've already trained from remaining members. It's not car insurance.

Also, you ignored my second point intentionally because I already explained this.

Here's my final say on the matter, I suppose (and no I didn't ignore your other point, I was in the process of writing a response to it separately):

Waterdeep School of Combat = Beginner Guild
Westgate Gilded Lance = Beginner + Advanced Guild

WD doesn't allow other beginners. GL allows anyone (for reasons of progression). WD allows you to retain membership (think alumni status) once you progress to advanced and join another guild.

It's reasonable if you think about it like a progression, but if you're still a beginner member of WD and go to join GL, it seems to contradict the statement that WD doesn't allow other beginners. That is, you can get around the requirement by joining WD first, hopping over to Westgate, and joining GL.

[Selveem]

I can understand where Lyllee is coming from. This is a game where rigidity is seen as a crutch: it is this way because it's been built thus.

I don't think Lyllee is questioning the intent of the builder as to if this was intended more as to "why it should be?"

Even still, while I understand the intent of the builders may differ from the way some players might logically see it, it is ultimately at the builder's discretion as to how they wish their areas built.

Lyllee, you make a valid argument. If I were to choose sides, I'd pick yours because I understand how it makes no sense (first of all, how the hell would the WD Fighter's guild magically know you already joined Westgate's Fighter's guild?) to you. It is somewhat illogical realism, but the builder had a specific function in mind and it's their call.

At the very least, it looks a hell of a lot better than it used to.

[Belose]

If I remember correctly, and the odds are I'm not, cause it was soooooooooooo long ago, Braeck joined the Mithril Halls Fighting Guild, went to Waterdeep, joined the guild there, tried going to join the gnome fighting guild, didn't work, they could tell I was a dwarf, hehehe...and couldn't join another guild until the Golden Lance, which I hardly take advantage of because I bought a PS3 not long after that and, well, now it's all Skyrim..when I have it handy...

[Harroghty]

Yes, Belose. Braeck predates these changes which were necessitated by the opening of Waterdeep as a starting location for all nine alignments.

[Isolrem]

Citizenship works this way. Some countries require you to denounce previous citizenships to join, others do not. If A is the former and B is the latter, then a citizen of A can become an A/B dual citizen, whereas a citizen of B cannot.

[Selveem]

Citizenship works this way. Some countries require you to denounce previous citizenships to join, others do not. If A is the former and B is the latter, then a citizen of A can become an A/B dual citizen, whereas a citizen of B cannot.

That's a failed parallel.
Besides, there's NO way for them to verify every freaking member of said guild. PCs = just a few amongst billions of intelligent races.

[Harroghty]

So you must be mad too that they will not allow rangers, paladins, or members of other classes to join, right? Because how would they know that.

[Gwain]

Generally, I'm pleased with all the guilds, they hold similar items in the most sense for fighters, just different designs.

[Selveem]

So you must be mad too that they will not allow rangers, paladins, or members of other classes to join, right? Because how would they know that.

Love the hyperbolic strawman. We both know that multi-classing isn't allowed on FK and that is a rigidity that is required. Two completely different things.

[Harroghty]

Not as different as you'd think; in both cases we use game mechanics to overcome the limitations of an organization not having a living, breathing sentient staff (or direct, constant control by a human dungeon master). In this case, there is a necessary suspension of disbelief in order to accomplish something and contrary to your usual saw that this was done because "it was" and that's final, I just do not feel that it would be productive to get into the two major causes for this change because you will never be satisfied and it is just not worth my time in explaining them to someone as obstinately contrary as you. So, in short, this was done to encourage role-play aims established by the staff and in order to conform more to the setting.