knife of flame

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:57 am

My old knife of flame has somehow changed into a thrown projectile.

Harroghty · Post by **Harroghty** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:43 am

Turn on your RANGED combatmode (combatmode +ranged).

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:19 pm

Any idea as to why it appears im better with an unknown weapon?

CM +RANGED

It is a dagger in the short blades category of weapons.
It can be picked up, held.
It cannot be worn with any other armour.
It is medium in size and would fit any body type.
It is made of energy and weighs next to nothing.

Primary Weapon: 1d4+2 Hit Bonus: -7 Critical: 19-20/x2
short blades (Str,Dex) expert

CM -RANGED

It is a dagger in the thrown projectiles category of weapons.
It can be picked up, held.
It cannot be worn with any other armour.
It is medium in size and would fit any body type.
It is made of energy and weighs next to nothing.

Primary Weapon: 1d4+2 Hit Bonus: -3 Critical: 19-20/x2

And I dont know thrown projectiles.

Harroghty · Post by **Harroghty** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:09 pm

It probably has something to do with other environmental issues. e.g. which hand you are holding it

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:30 am

You wield a knife of flame in your right hand, which is your offhand.
Few could wield a knife of flame better than you.
Offhand Weapon: 1d4+1 Hit Bonus: -7 Critical: 19-20/x2

You stop using a knife of flame.
You wield a knife of flame in your left hand.
Few could wield a knife of flame better than you.
Primary Weapon: 1d4+2 Hit Bonus: -7 Critical: 19-20/x2

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:34 am

Erm, retract the previous post as to i Had defensive mode on. Didnt realize I had that on.. But im still at a -3 to hit with the weapon.

Primary Weapon: 1d4+2 Hit Bonus: -3 Critical: 19-20/x2

Do I get a negative bonus for being a gnome.. or a wizard?

Harroghty · Post by **Harroghty** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:49 am

Not sure. That's outside of my box; I am not the code mechanics guy.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:44 pm

If the weapon is not sized for you, yes.

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:28 am

Yes: If you wield a weapon that is one size larger than you are (even with both hands), you will have a -2 penalty to hit. Your strength also impacts your to-hit score, as well as your proficiency with the weapon type. I'm guessing the latter is key in your case. I can reproduce -3 to hit with that weapon when it is not resized (i.e., it is medium) on a STR 15 gnome (size small) with no or very limited skill in short blades. If that doesn't clear things up for you, please let me know.

p.s. Your wizard class impacts your base attack bonus, shown on the line above the one for your weapon. It does impact your chance of hitting anything, but not the -3 value you are asking about.

Enig · Post by **Enig** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:31 pm

He shouldn't be receiving a non-proficiency penalty (-4 to hit) with an expert skill in short blades, though.

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:04 pm

Its size small, which would be a medium blade for me... I would need to resize it to tiny for it to negate some negative modifiers.

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:50 am

Cret wrote:Its size small, which would be a medium blade for me... I would need to resize it to tiny for it to negate some negative modifiers.

What size is your PC?!? (On your score sheet - top part.)
What is your STR?
What is your skill in Short Blades?

If you don't wish to answer these publicly, please PM me. But if the blade is size small and you are size small, there should not be a size penalty. It may have been damaged in the resizing (weapon quality can impact to-hit as well)?

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:13 pm

Im size small - weapon is medium.
Str of 15
Im expert.

The weapon is average quality.. but has never been resized.

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:37 am

Cret wrote:Im size small - weapon is medium.
Str of 15
Im expert.

The weapon is average quality.. but has never been resized.

Well, that all sounds right...but then you should be at +1, not -3! (-3 is right for short blade skill levels below amateur, for these stats and sizes) Something else is afoot!

What's set on/off in COMBATMODE? Are you in KILLMODE kill? Any AFFECTs in play?

If possible, I'll catch you online and make sure it's not your specific instance of the blade.

Anyone have any other ideas what might be causing a -4 to hit modifier?

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:08 pm

Defensive mode set to off.
[ Keyword ] Option
[-defensive ] You do not fight defensively.
[-maximize spell ] You do not cast spells using the maximize spell feat.
[-quicken spell ] You do not cast spells using the quicken spell feat.
[-silent spell ] You do not cast spells using the silent spell feat.
[-still spell ] You do not cast spells using the still spell feat.
[+RANGED ] You use ranged/melee weapons as melee weapons in combat.

Spells and other magical affects
No cantrip or skill affects you.

Primary Weapon: 1d4+2 Hit Bonus: -3 Critical: 19-20/x2

Also, shouldn't the dagger be a masterwork dagger as it is magical?

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:25 am

Hold on...I can reproduce this if the PC doesn't have the point blank shot feat...which I think means that the game is checking against the wrong skill based on the RANGED combatmode - it is checking against thrown projectiles for +Ranged, against short blades for -Ranged...likely another instance of what seems to me the reversed sign indicators for this combatmode messing things up. Moving to bugs for confirmation.

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:48 am

OK, confirmed, though the problem is cosmetic.

When you set COMBATMODE +Ranged, SCORE will show your to-hit bonus for the weapon as a thrown projectile. When set to COMBATMODE -Ranged, SCORE will show your to-hit bonus for the weapon as a short blade. But in combat, in either case, it checks against and uses the short blade skill, and actually applies the same (the one shown then COMBATMODE -Ranged is set) to-hit modifier. It doesn't look to me like the weapon is actually thrown in either case. The knife stays in inventory and no use is made of the thrown projectiles skill.

For now, I'll focus on the clear part of this bug!

Steps to reproduce:
Loadup an Imm
OINVOKE 2980
SSET SELF all 25
SSET SELF 'short blades' 0
[Empty hands]
WIELD FLAME
COMBATMODE +RANGED
SCORE
[Score will show weapon to-hit bonus appropriate for thrown projectiles skill level, higher]
COMBATMODE -RANGED
SCORE
[Score will show weapon to-hit bonus appropriate for short blades skill level, lower]
SSET SELF 'short blades' 25
SCORE
[Score will show weapon to-hit bonus appropriate for short blades skill level, now equal to that for +Ranged]
Expected: The weapon to-hit bonuses shown for +Ranged and -Ranged are reversed, at least for the current implementation of the meaning of + and - on this combatmode toggle (which has always caused confusion - the meaning of + and - are counterintuitive, to my mind). Currently, +Ranged means you use the weapon as a melee weapon in combat, so SCORE should reflect skill in short blades when that is set, not skill in thrown projectiles, and vice-versa.

Figuring out what should happen in actual combat when -Ranged is set...we'll leave for the next pass.

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