Death in FK

[Travis]

Solutions for amending the problem at hand have been proposed (including perma-death, corpse preservation, tweaking the economics, severe loss of exp, etc...) and in an earlier post I outlined the solutions I thought most practical and most likely to be seen from such a discussion.

Thats the problem. The problem is not in the code or rules, the problem is with the player knowing that death in this game is nothing more than a mere speedbump. There are no penalties other than loosing whatever xp you currently have at that level.

Death is a mere speedbump for people because that's how it's coded. There are no severe penalties for dying. Rarely are rewards handed out for good death RP. So why would someone change their attitude about the death system just because 'we say you should RP appropriately'? If they are totally ignorant of what death is on FK, there might be a chance that informing them would be effective. I doubt this is the case in most instances.

So how do you get someone to RP? You give incentive. You either increase the punishments, the rewards, or both.

So if there's no problem with code... Let's see some non-coded rewards (or punishments.)

I hope that explains it better.

[Sairaven]

I don't know about you, but for me RP is often its own reward (and, by the flip of the coin, its own punishment).

[Travis]

Yes.

Could you relate that to the topic, though?
Maybe propose a new solution... or discuss what has already been proposed.

I think even just the use of the 'reward' command would be a good start.

[Oghma]

I don't know about you, but for me RP is often its own reward (and, by the flip of the coin, its own punishment).

I would say that this comment alone epitomizes the spirit behind Fk and Death in Fk. There are several examples of players that take the time to go out of their way to role play a proper death and raising rp. There are also several examples of players that never role play death at all but treat it as an insignificant role play. I would say that out of the two groups the ones that role play a proper death rp stand to benefit from the following:

• -If they pray for a deities aid, they may earn that resurrection or raising depending on the scope of the prayer/favour and rp.
  -If they role play a proper death and return, they stand as an example of someone role playing a situation properly and setting an example for other players
  -IC rewards such as use of the reward command depending on the observer's preference or discretion

If they don't and treat death as an ooc issue or a pop in and out of the bakery they might:

• -Lose favour or risk the ire of their deities if they go to get raised by a mobile of a different cloth that is their enemy (ie, a priest of cyric raising a lathanderite)
  -A complex and difficult task might be required of them to reclaim their corpses if they or the recovers cannot be bothered to rp death properly.
  - Those observing might judge constant quick raises with disdain and see it as a sign of immaturity or a lack of understanding the role play enforced environment of the mud itself.

I don't see the need for greater rewards besides what is currently offered. Resurrection is offered as a way to be raised without the affect of raising. Favour and supplication can work to return one to life. Prayer and patience can work to create an interesting rp as well. The reward command should not be enforced, it should only be dolled out as a player feels comfortable. You should rp because this is an rp mud, not because of the rewards you hope to gain because it is something your character should do as part of their rp.

The system is constantly changing with ideas being seized upon all the time. Who knows what evolution the system will take in the future? I can only ask that people do their best to role play as the situation demands it and therefore do the best they can. And in this thread continue to come up with ideas pertaining to the situation of death.

[Travis]

I'm just proposing things.

RP is a great reward.

Clearly it's not a big enough reward (-or punishment-) for some people to RP their deaths, otherwise... I don't think there would be a problem.

I like:
- preserve corpse idea
- the tweak-a-priest idea
- includes sliding scale idea

What do you like? Why?

[Raona]

There's a bit of a vicious circle to this problem, I'd venture, in that if you and your cohort die often, you get tired of (even very well done) death and return-to-life RP's. You want to "just hurry up and get back to the adventure," because (at best), you've seen many death RP's before, and there's only so much variation on a theme. Besides, your group wants to get to the bottom of Thisdungeon before someone has to go to bed. If death is an unusual occurrence, I think everyone involved is far more willing (and likely to be appreciative) of significant RP.

Some PC's seem to bite it very often - you know, the ones where someone says "Sonso died again" and everyone around (well, at least the Ilmateri) struggles to respond ICly, rather than just shrug and roll their eyes, which is what they are doing OOCly. Some people respond to frequent death by finding ways to come back without "bothering" anyone, others are entirely willing to ask others to bail them out repeatedly. But a cavalier attitude is perfectly appropriate for some PCs (think Tempurians), so as much as I otherwise like the risk-of-perma-death idea, I can't back it, for that reason.

I also believe that for many new MUD players, death is plenty traumatic - in pen and paper D&D, unless you had a pretty advanced group, death was...death. Roll a new character. But maybe my DM's were extra-harsh. In any case, I don't want to make it more difficult - or traumatizing - for players dying for the first time. I know I was all squirmy my first time. I only had 24 hours to find a way to come back?!? I was in a panic.

I guess my bottom line is, I'd back something that was able to effectively target those players who's PC's didn't treat death with anything approaching an IC response, without making things harder for the well-RPed Tempurian or the newbie. But making that differentiation, especially automatically, is difficult indeed.

[Pascus]

So I don't have very much time, but I just wanted to throw some things out there. We all agree that to a point there needs to be some suggestion on how to control the amount of deaths, All except faith matters, because when a diety is thrown into the punch anything pretty much goes.
Why don't we institute something like this, newbies up to level 20 when they die recieve no penalty. After level twenty each time you die there is a risk of losing a stat point somewhere, say the bring back of your soul and the amount of time you spent in the Fugue Plane had a strain upon your whole being. And if the player later, after some good roleplay through a event or a quest given by an IMM (Diety, or Uncoded Dieties) or a Faith Manager (To keep it only within the players) that persons diety could instill into them a blessing that would restore that stat point. This would encourage those people not to die, but we all know it happens. But repeatedly is the issue, and not only that but it would encourage the goodie or evil to further more push their diety's goals in the kingdom.
(I know someone suggested this as well, but I like the idea of it. Not too harsh, but allowing the chance to redeem yourself.)

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Raona]

I like that idea, Pascus!

Another one that came to mind was to make something like this (or perma-death, or what have you) hinge on how many PCs are in the account. That would protect newbies, and those most likely to be forlorn at their PC dying. But then again, I'm one of those no-longer-newbies with very few PCs; because I don't have time to play the PC's I have, let alone make more.

I do think people play and simply abandon (not lose to death) far too many PCs at once, but that's another thread.

[Jaenoic]

I very much believe that we should not go coding more restrictions that harm PCs. I believe the death system in FK works just fine the way it is and there is no need to change it.
Yeah, some people die a lot and treat death as a minor experience. But how many of those people can you think of? I can think of maybe... Two. And now how many characters are played? Hundreds maybe? It seems wrong to punish and restrict those characters for the actions of a very very small few. To be honest I haven't really been keeping up too much with this thread because I feel like the same things keep being said over and over, but I can't help but feel like we're focusing on a few bad cases of improper death RP and not realizing the overwhelming majority of players DO RP death well.
So my strong opinion on how to fix death on FK... Is don't. Leave it the way it is. =P

[Kirkus]

Just adding on to the idea Pascus suggested...

Would it be possible to have a non permanent modifier? Something that would go away after a while, like after a month. I would say a constitution modifier would be most understandable. This could give the situation the seriousness it deserves. I like the idea that death has kinda drained the character but I think a permanent zap to the constitution would be a little much. We could of course wave this for the lower levels. And obviously add ways to remove this modifier sooner. These ways would be rp intensive or something of the sort.

[Nedylene]

I see alot of people brought back to life. One of the side effects of being a cleric. I have seen the good, the bad, the peculiar.. and the ugly.

The only thing I care for.. is that SOMETHING is given. Some emotion, pain, frenzy... something. There is no one way to return from the dead and there never will be one way. Some will come back in pain, coughing water out of their throat, pullin a frog out of the mouth ( Thank you Laerith for that one). Some come back crying because of memories, emotions or simply shock. Some will scream, shiver, not see clearly... Some will have memory loss. I find the varieties of how people rp death intoxicating and very rarely see someone rp it as nothing. VERY rarely.

My thought on this entire subject is if you WANT people to rp deaths then set an example. Almost all of my raises are witnessed by one or many people. And each one I get that is properly rped out I will reward them because I LIKE to see it and because other people see that as well. They now have a standard to look at for when they face it. I don't think code change, restrictions or anything else will change anything. Only examples will.

Yeah my two cents.. *climbs off her soap box*