Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Not trying to shoot the messenger. Raona, you know I appreciate as much work as you put in for us, but I have to be ask how an NPC hoarding coin from PCs is about game balance?

Goods and services are supposed to cost coin; I get that, but throwing 300 platinum on your horse just because you don't want the bank stealing 30 platinum from you for a single deposit doesn't seem like it's promoting RP.

The coin on that animal can't be stolen as it'll be in a pack. This does a PC thief nothing to promote RP. In fact, if anything, I'd say it discourages RP as it really just doesn't seem like an IC thing to do.

I realize that the decision has already been made, but I question the thought process on the decision. The negatives outweigh the pros on this as far as I can think (the sole pro being that it limits the amount of coin in the game, but even that I question as being a viable solution in a near-static world).

Considering how easy it is to make mone now, I don't really see the problem with the bank fees as they are.
nobody forces you to use it if you don' want, and having your coins available from almost anywhere has no cost for me.

Brar

Brar wrote:Considering how easy it is to make mone now, I don't really see the problem with the bank fees as they are.
nobody forces you to use it if you don' want, and having your coins available from almost anywhere has no cost for me.

Brar

Money is still not very easy to make at the low levels unless you know FK really well. New players are going to really struggle. And this fee makes banks 100% pointless for low-level characters. Also, low level characters die MUCH easier than high level characters are obvious reasons, so as such, the risk is compounded for them (since they are DETERRED from using a bank for safe-keeping and they die easier).

This is both an in-game problem (for FK) and a personal beef (my life philosophy). This is effectively a tax on the players of the game at which absolutely no benefit is received. It is effectively money that is removed from the economy, never to be seen again. This is an RP deterrent in the middle of an RP-enforced game. Seriously, you're making it so players have less money to use which means less interactions with other players. What RP does this create? Me handing a token to a stable master so I can get money from my horse? That's not RP, that's an alternate bank.

I do not support, with every fiber of my being, a tax on the playerbase which brings absolutely no positive benefit to the game.

Selveem wrote:Goods and services are supposed to cost coin; I get that, but throwing 300 platinum on your horse just because you don't want the bank stealing 30 platinum from you for a single deposit doesn't seem like it's promoting RP.

I convert large sums of money into lighter-weight tokens, then hoard those and act like I'm beating the system. This has made for some fun roleplay for me.

I like the concept of having to take risks in order to get rewards. I save money by hording my coin on my own, but there's always that chance that it could go away somehow. Having the banks charge nothing seems silly to me, as does stating that banking your coins for safe keeping carries no benefit (see the "safe keeping" part). As others have said, if you don't like paying for the bank's services, then don't. The problem that I see is that it is still quite impossible for PCs to get their own treasuries, thus requiring them to tote around all those unusually-heavy coins on their person, with their mount, or in storage, all of which have weight limitations. Realistically, they would have many other options for storing their belongings (having a home, buying additional storage space, etc.), which the game does not currently reflect.

I do really like the idea of being able to deposit so much before fees kick in, though, and one hundred platinum seems like a nice, round number to me. That way, the rich folks can still hide their coins away to save on bank fees if they so choose, but the younger adventurers can safely store coins there and spend them as they level up. New characters won't be charged so much as a copper until they've begun hoarding in ernest. That feels like a nice balance to me.

Just to throw out one other idea that I had not seen mentioned, what if PCs could pay so much money upfront in order to decrease all transaction fees in the future? For example, one could pay five hundred platinum coins in order to lower their deposit fees to 5%. Again, those numbers are for example's sake.

Re: Zashier:

I don't care as much for high levels' sakes as much as low levels. Sure, it's annoying at any level, but as has been stated repeatedly: it's the low levels who really take it in the rear - especially newer players who don't know how the hell to make coin to begin with.

It's cool we got an "Old 'Boys' Club" and all, but this has to be more than about just keeping older players here. We need the same of new blood, too.

I have followed this thread, and various conversations on the subject, for a while now. Might as well chime in now.

The 10% deposit 'issue' is not something a high level should be all that concerned about. (-EXAMPLE ONLY-) Is it annoying when Gilain has to cough up 50 platinum to deposit 500 platinum? Sure it is, no doubt. But, along the same lines, Gilain has found a way to make 500 platinum, he can make up the 50 platinum easily enough or use other methods of fortune stashing.

So, to me this is a low level issue. As others have stated, low levels, be they newbies or 'old boys' club on alts often leave coin in packs or on pets because that 10% is harder hitting when you earn maybe 5 platinum for a hard day's work.

The 'no fee' option for bank balances below 150 platinum (or whatever number) is the easiest and safest method to combat this issue. It removes the rather harsh effect banks have on newbies, while at the same time allows a safety-net balance for higher ups that may wish to use it. If we ran with this option, I would suggest the bankers' NPCs, or even the character creation scripts, be updated to inform newbies of this new freedom.

Selveem wrote:I don't care as much for high levels' sakes as much as low levels. Sure, it's annoying at any level, but as has been stated repeatedly: it's the low levels who really take it in the rear - especially newer players who don't know how the hell to make coin to begin with.

Zasheir wrote:I do really like the idea of being able to deposit so much before fees kick in, though, and one hundred platinum seems like a nice, round number to me. That way, the rich folks can still hide their coins away to save on bank fees if they so choose, but the younger adventurers can safely store coins there and spend them as they level up. New characters won't be charged so much as a copper until they've begun hoarding in ernest. That feels like a nice balance to me.

I agree, obviously.

I would suggest a level based system, say after level 10 the fee kicks in. But that's open to abuse since some people actually would spend hours upon hours hoarding copper from dummies.

The 100 (150) platinum thing is actually a better idea, in my opinion, and gets the job done since the concern here is low level players and new players starting out. So long as the deposit cuts off after that...say your first deposit is 500 platinum because you've hoarded, 400 (350) of that -should- be taxed. But coding that might be tricky.

I'm loathe to raise this from the dead, but the bank cut is now 5%, rounded up to the nearest copper; a new player was kind enough to point out that Mirt's speech and example on the subject is out of date. I think that's where bank policy is going to stay, though.

Builders: Bug report on this coming with the next typo batch!

Hmm. (A new player here)

Maybe make the fee 5% and, like someone suggested, drop it for people below 100 platinum? I agree that it hurts newbies...

Trillarel wrote:Hmm. (A new player here)

Maybe make the fee 5% and, like someone suggested, drop it for people below 100 platinum? I agree that it hurts newbies...

Hello and welcome, Trillarel. Thank you for taking the time to post a new player's perspective. As has been the case on various subjects, sometimes fresh eyes can help us older players (not to mention I like being agreed with).

I thought according to Raona's post above it was already set to 5% now?

You missed the second part, Gwain.. 5% after the first 100 plat.

Actually, the rate really is 5% for everyone, in all cases, now.

Then does it raise after 100 platnium? I'll be honest, I do not use the bank...I'm too broke.

Raona wrote:Actually, the rate really is 5% for everyone, in all cases, now.

So why in the tutorial I deposit 1 silver and get 9 copper back?

I suspect that would be due to there being no smaller sum than 1 copper. These hard-working bankers have to make a living too, you know!

Lathlain wrote:I suspect that would be due to there being no smaller sum than 1 copper. These hard-working bankers have to make a living too, you know!

Read: Have to steal every copper they can get away with. <.<

Bellayana wrote:Then does it raise after 100 platnium? I'll be honest, I do not use the bank...I'm too broke.

No, no shift at a 100 platinum balance. There may be one at a certain level or whatnot, I can't see the code - but testing the cut rate at various deposit levels above and below 100 platinum, I always see a 5% cut now.

Trillarel wrote:

Raona wrote:Actually, the rate really is 5% for everyone, in all cases, now.

So why in the tutorial I deposit 1 silver and get 9 copper back?

Lathlain's answer is right...but it might be good to tweak that lesson to make it make more sense. Thanks for mentioning it! The Imms just put in a fix so that will make more sense.

I am rather offed by the cut too so I support the adjustment.