Vial of Blessed Water - POOF!

[Nysan]

1. Components.

Heal - If the amount it heals stays the same, the component should be removed. This removes alot of the hassle attached to this problem. The spell is under-preforming and is constantly spammed as it stands. If the healing values are changed to more agreeable amounts, since this is the 'major healing' spell for adventuring, the component should stay, however I would like to see it turned to a 2-5 uses per vial setup at the same time.

Other spells - For those that do not realize, a number of spells use 'vials of blessed water' as components, offensive and defensive. Every single one is a 1-time use cast, thats 1 vial per spell, on many spells that will be casted at least once per battle, not even considering Heal. Speaking on behalf of Nysan, a brewer of many of these spells, that is alot of 'bless water' spam, even worse if the priest wants to take the extra RP step and turn their water into holy/unholy variations. It would be good to make these also a 2-5 usage components. It is not a matter of balance, most priests do the work and carry 100+ vials. All it does it cut down that "sit in empty room and spam spell" prep work.

2. Healing values:

Cure light/moderate/serious/critical - Something has to be done. These spells' healing values are VASTLY under-preforming. Yes, it is nice to bring things into to 3E rules, but when characters' hit points are already higher than 3E standard, you cannot shift heals and not see some fallout. The only reason Heal is the 'adventure' standard is because it is a waste of 1-2 rounds to cast any of the lower spells, outside of the 'mass cure' types, to migrate the % of hit points lost each turn. We either need to balance character (and mob) hit points closer to 3E, so healing spells are more effective, or abandon the attempt to bring healing to 3E levels and balance them around FK health standards. Similar complaint about cause l/m/s/c, but there are other means to damage... no other means to heal.

[Eltsac]

Well it's back to the healing spells discussion, but then I don't think I already gave my point on it so here it is :

The healing spells should not be balanced considering the x2.5 HP we have (which aim to me is to make fights last longer and thus give us more time for reaction

In fact the healing spells have to be balanced compared to the damage done by NPC.
The damage isn't multiplied, so the healing shouldn't either.
Now if you find NPC do too much damage compared to healing, I can see two reasons :
- protection spells are often underused from what I can hear
- PC aren't equiped as they should for their level, but some work is done to introduce more magical items, giving the possibility to gain some extra protection. We have to be patient about that.

The only thing I could see that would favor a small increase of healing values is the fact that, as we are not playing fight turn by turn and healing isn't automatic, we are not healing at the same rate that NPC is dealing damage.

Well that's my point of view. Don't know if it makes sense.

But then, because fights last longer and we thus use more healing spells per encounter than in standard rules, I would be up for removing the component for the heal spell, or at least make it 5 uses or somthing like that.

El.

[Selveem]

Eltsac, you bring up many valid points and I appreciate you having done so. I would like to share my view:

The damage isn't multiplied, so the healing shouldn't either.

Quite fair reasoning, in my opinion. It sounds good in concept, but in practice is another story. When you walk into a room, sometimes you don't get a chance to react and sometimes those mobs you are fighting are EXCEPTIONALLY powerful. This happens especially during quests. I've seen a level 50 fighter go from 100% into her 20s before I can even react due to the lag just on walking into the 'room.' Healing only ~20% each cast from there is nearly impossible (if they survive to begin with, luckily the head or chest weren't cleaved in this instance) to keep your poor fighter alive. The timing has to be absolutely perfect and I have to be making sure nothing is attacking _me_ too, or I might fail my concentration and waste what little time is there to keep my 'tank' alive.

But, to my detriment, you're very smart and you've already come up with a counterpoint! *grumble*

protection spells are often underused from what I can hear

You're absolutely right on this note. Very much so, actually. However, this is often a culmination of issues:

• The easiest offender is that it's sometimes very difficult to purchase very key components like gem powder which is consistently out of stock from most vendors.
• The second common offender is that it's almost impossible to keep a 'tank' spelled up throughout the fights when many spells will barely get you through a single encounter. The best chance is with metamagic feats to extend the length of your protections like shield of faith, protection, prayer, etc. However, remember there is balance in everything and by using those metamagic feats, higher spell slots are required and by using THOSE, you have less spell slots for casting healing prayers for your tank.
• Most areas aren't designed with little spots it's 'okay' to rest in.. you know, places you can meditate and your fighter can 'block the door.' Realistically, unless your character was at least Master at meditation, I think they wouldn't be able to concentrate well enough in such a place to even bother attempting. And, even then, they'd probably be exceptionally reluctant to do so.

PC aren't equiped as they should for their level, but some work is done to introduce more magical items, giving the possibility to gain some extra protection. We have to be patient about that.

Again, a very masterful preemptive maneuvering! I truly respect your foresight for anticipating counters. But, let's be fair: The MUD shouldn't just stop because things haven't yet been implemented. At this point, we're left to our own devices as players and have to make do with what we can. So, when you look at it from this perspective, healing _is_ exceptionally underpowered in FK. Even with spells that grant a +5 to natural AC and a +2 to deflection AC, you're watching your fighter get creamed. Looking at that, I'm not so sure a possible +3 AC is really going to help enough to say that 'healing is working well enough to the point it's not a painfully stressful to our Priests.'

BUT! To get onto the point of this thread:

This thread wasn't about increasing healing modifier. There's already a thread for that. This thread is about increasing the uses on vials of blessed waters. I feel the same way for all components, actually, but this particular one stands out as a giant thorn amongst thorns. I'm very happy you agree that it should have more casts. <3

[Raona]

Alrighty, I'm not hearing a single note here, but some definite harmony.

I'm going to kick the idea of changing cure/heal components up to staff, with the recommendation that they not be removed completely, at least from heal, but the rate of consumption be dropped. That can be implemented quickly; changes to the amount healed I'll leave to that other thread, which is largely above my pay grade.

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.