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Pardon my sardonic tone, but...why does anyone need 30 PCs? It's like having 30 children. You can't even remember their names after a while, and 20 of them may as well be orphans. I see most players have huge stables of PCs, and I just don't get it. I understand wanting to do something new from time to time, but I personally think it's already too easy, in that people create new PCs in preference to playing the ones they have. Buying an even easier start seems to me just more of an invitation to expect your PC to be perfect, and if not, create another. But maybe that's just me - in a fantasy world, you can fantasize that you'll be perfect. I prefer to play my few imperfect PCs, though.

To stick with my contrarian tone, in the old days of 1st Edition P&P D&D (yes, really, I'm THAT old), the very best part was levels 1-10. I think we are moving in the direction of trying to capture some of that magic (which the current dummies certainly don't provide), but it's a heavy lift given the prevailing mindset that you can't have fun until you are uber-powerful...which is a straight-up misnomer. I don't know about others, but Raona got a thrill making her way to Silverymoon by day, dodging bandits, once she realized she didn't have to fight them and that they would stick to the roads and that there were no serious hazards on the plains. (Granted, having to rest often was annoying, but I think we've got that pretty much licked now.)

This all said with the clear understanding that I'm an odd duck, and most people seem to think differently...but I wanted to put it out there. This is just my personal opinion, not a staff statement.

Raona, I want you to be sure you know I'm not bashing you or anything, but you've some statements and questions you raised that I feel deserve to be answered.

Raona wrote:Pardon my sardonic tone, but...why does anyone need 30 PCs?

Why does anyone need to play a class other than warrior? Why should anyone need to adventure, when most Inns provide cheap liquors and food? Why does anyone need to play FK? You're confusing need with want. The answer is really simple when you look at the question on its face: "Personal preference."

Raona wrote:I understand wanting to do something new from time to time, but I personally think it's already too easy, in that people create new PCs in preference to playing the ones they have. Buying an even easier start seems to me just more of an invitation to expect your PC to be perfect, and if not, create another. But maybe that's just me - in a fantasy world, you can fantasize that you'll be perfect. I prefer to play my few imperfect PCs, though.

Is that not still the domain of fantasy, though? What is wrong with wanting to try to make the "perfect character" in your mind (aside from the obvious fact that perfection is impossible)? Why should it be so difficult? Leveling in FK is obnoxiously time-consuming. I recognize you've stated that this is your opinion, but I very much disagree with making simple things difficult just for the sake of making them difficult. Leveling on FK is a good example of that. If it took killing that many creatures in D&D to level, no one would play. Here, it discourages people, but the more resilient folk stick around. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing... I don't know. I know it's pretty damned annoying for me to go through low levels all over again, though.

Raona wrote:I think we are moving in the direction of trying to capture some of that magic (which the current dummies certainly don't provide), but it's a heavy lift given the prevailing mindset that you can't have fun until you are uber-powerful...which is a straight-up misnomer.

Depends on your RP preference. If you want to just sit around MS all day, sure! "RP" can be attained at any level. If you want to go out wandering with these nice new people you met, you damned well be past level 10 or you're going to run out of stamina every few steps. Great RP, shitty burden on your group members. Not everyone likes "RPing" a feeble creature who would have more use as a meal for Trolls.

Raona wrote:I don't know about others, but Raona got a thrill making her way to Silverymoon by day, dodging bandits, once she realized she didn't have to fight them and that they would stick to the roads and that there were no serious hazards on the plains. (Granted, having to rest often was annoying, but I think we've got that pretty much licked now.)

...And then you had to log off to go to work. When you came back, you are right where you left off, but can see absolutely nothing and realize you forgot to buy a torch. Dare you still wander about?

Raona wrote:This all said with the clear understanding that I'm an odd duck

We know, but we love you for it.

All fair enough! Especially the bit about having to leave the game while mid-travel, though it certainly happened to me often...just had to lay in wait until daybreak.

But from a DM perspective, it's a real challenge to keep the game engaging for top-level PCs. There is so much less they can advance in, and only so much L00T you can offer to keep them engaged. True, a series of puzzle-type adventures can keep it engaging, but the same is true at any level.

I agree it is a difference of opinion, and that I'm in the marked minority. Most everyone who plays has a lot of PCs. I just wish, often, that they would keep playing those they had started rather than having a new one every day...doubly so when the motivation for the latter seems to be that they didn't maximize the potential of the first one, choosing the wrong feat or stat along the way.

Given that people DO make lots and lots of PCs, I'm really ambivalent on whether making that easy via OOC means is any improvement. But it's a fair suggestion that it might be.

From an Alt-a-holic's perspective, and from what I've seen in the game, there really isn't any incentive to go out of the newbie training area until level 6 to 10 and I know that will change with the new changes to the newbie training area.

Yet the game doesn't really open up for you until about levels 11 to 15.

I used to think in favor of this suggestion but now I think not. I asked myself why the above is the way it is and here's what I realized:

The level discrepancy between new and old players is HUGE but I think I have a solution for that and it involves...

Alts! and grouping up on specified days.

So, instead of the above, why don't we, as players, set aside a day or two a week for playing our characters that are at certain levels?

We can have a low (level 6 to 15) level adventure day and a mid (15 to 25 or even 30) level adventure day, which I think would be a more creative way to alleviate the slowness of the early game.

-- The above is my suggestion to us as players (ps. I've already started the initiative here: viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15159)

To me at the crux, I think Lath's redux of the path of life is the solution. I would suggest rather that any ideas you have at the core that you'd like to see that level or stat adjustment would accomplish, offer an alternative to be included along the path of life?

Just thought I'd chime in my two coppers worth While I do like the idea of a somewhat less arduous amount of lvl 1-10 grinding, for myself, it's that time when I fine-tune and get the basis of a char's back story nailed down, in part from the events he/she endures in that time, as well as getting to know my character as well, how they are going to react to a given situation. While I might like to start at something a little higher than lvl 1, I don't think I'd ever use the option, to ensure I don't rob myself of the learning curve I have for a new lowbie. I do like the idea of revamping the newbie areas a bit, but I'm not sure what could be done to make it better, aside from some of the suggestions already mentioned, such as xp/coin/item reward quests in the newbie areas. Any-hoo, just a couple thoughts I had on the topic