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When I made this suggestion, I put it out there because I want to see the stereotype more than the snowflakes. People can't properly play the common sunelf, and show they have what it takes in FK for it, so why should we be allowed to have the snowflakes more often?

I would rather go off source books for this, and put it to the literal sense instead of watering it down with everyone's opinions of how it should be, and see people play better sunelves as they should be for Corellon before allowing special sunelves to roam free. Despite what people say, they are not human god followers. When you believe you are the devout of Corellon's blood, how could you say I am his better child(compared to moon, wood, and wild), and yet I give my devotion to another god? That makes no sense at all. You are basically shunning your blood, and what your blood means. To make an example of how I see sunelves, in my opinion when they say they don't want to follow the seldarine, is like an orc saying I'm a good guy, I'm going to follow chauntea, and go against what an orc is, or a drow like Drizzt. These are snowflakes, and should be kept to a minimal happening, and not be allowed to become the common sort. People love the commonality of elves as they are, so why shouldn't there be a restriction in place to keep the race from going against what it really means, and stands for?

I see your point. I also agree with Casamir, what he said about Drizzt.

I think there is a limit to how unlike a race you play your character.

But, that being said... We want there to be a majority of humans, right? But not *only* humans? Because if I was restricted to only being allowed to play races exactly as described in the books, I would stop playing those races.

Bah.


I promise this is my last post in this topic, because it's just too twisted. I'm more afraid the debate will be an argument soon, and the advantages and disadvantages on both sides have been addressed.

Applications, my final word on it. We play in a setting, the setting has general cultural rules. Feel you're up to the challenge of playing outside it? Apply. Like Gwain said, don't fault people who already have a character, but make it so we understand that there's no point in playing in Forgotten Realms (and more specifically, Forgotten Kingdoms which is based off this setting) if all we're going to do is twist and bend every culture.


As for Casamir's starting area idea, if I wasn't knee deep in another area, I'd volunteer doing it just to close this thread.


EDIT: *points down*

I have read some good points about the community responsibility to maintain our setting. So, the consensus, I think is:

- require an application in order for Sun Elves to follow a deity outside of the Seldarine

- discuss an elf Starting location (be this a city or a module which feeds an existing city)

About right?

Perfect, Drew!! Those would be the great starting points to it, and make it a good way to hopefully get the elf RP rolling again in general. Also maybe point out that just because you make a sunelf, you don't have to go the way of nobles. I have a sun elf ranger that is a commoner, and doesn't follow Corellon. So many possibilities all around.

*Cough* We could remove gold elves altogether and just have fey'ri instead. But no, in reality, I think those are good starting points. I dont mind doing some of the coding bits for such a project. I would recommend Evereska, or if not Evereska, than an outlier monastery in the Greycloak hills.

I don't know if its still on the testport somewhere but several years ago someone made a highly detailed map of the Evermeet Wilderness that never quite made it to the main port (though it was there somewhat) If you can find it maybe it could be used?

I will discuss this with the staff, but I think an area is not so much required as even a few rooms that might precede the newbie area for sun elves. A short elven setting with some lore delivered via story format (i.e. a knowledge quest that is not overtly didactic).

Harroghty wrote:I will discuss this with the staff, but I think an area is not so much required as even a few rooms that might precede the newbie area for sun elves. A short elven setting with some lore delivered via story format (i.e. a knowledge quest that is not overtly didactic).

If you do this, could we just do it for elves in general with the option of moon elves, who are more prevalent in human cities, to opt out of the tradition elven path, and any others needing to apply via forums?

Alexan wrote:
As for Casamir's starting area idea, if I wasn't knee deep in another area, I'd volunteer doing it just to close this thread.

As starting area could be good, but we might not need to go that big, and I had heard there was talks about doing a huge, elven starting area, but I'm not sure if got off the ground. I think just putting in a side branch at the start of the game if you choose the elf race, would work better. Kind of like the newbie start, but just before hometown selection. Might be the easiest to do for now.

Tyeslan wrote: When you believe you are the devout of Corellon's blood, how could you say I am his better child(compared to moon, wood, and wild), and yet I give my devotion to another god? That makes no sense at all. You are basically shunning your blood, and what your blood means.?[/quote

quote="Tyeslan"] I have a sun elf ranger that is a commoner, and doesn't follow Corellon. So many possibilities all around.

Wait, what? You mean you don't follow Corellon?

As far as the human god thing goes, it's not a one case fits all situation. Don't judge until you look a bit deeper into it. It's not as cut and dry as you seem to think it is. There are a lot of factors involved and I welcome anyone to seek me out IC if you wish to know why I seek to follow a human god. All gods are not created equal in their ways of faith and worship. Thisiana might seek to follow tempus, but she still worships and pays her respects to corellon and the rest of the pantheon.

The actual constructive comments on this thread such as requiring an application for special role plays and the elven newbie area I fully support. It's perfectly fine to recommend these types of things, but don't just start spouting jibberish to spite other players that don't fit your stereotypical mold just for the heck of it, especially without even taking the time to find out the most important thing... WHY are they doing it?

Guess I am probably making waves, but it is what it is. I won't derail the thread any further.

This thread has made some good progress thus far, but I will lock it the second it turns into a flame war. Let's keep focused on the issues please.

Thisiana wrote:

Tyeslan wrote: When you believe you are the devout of Corellon's blood, how could you say I am his better child(compared to moon, wood, and wild), and yet I give my devotion to another god? That makes no sense at all. You are basically shunning your blood, and what your blood means.?[/quote

quote="Tyeslan"] I have a sun elf ranger that is a commoner, and doesn't follow Corellon. So many possibilities all around.

Wait, what? You mean you don't follow Corellon?

As far as the human god thing goes, it's not a one case fits all situation. Don't judge until you look a bit deeper into it. It's not as cut and dry as you seem to think it is. There are a lot of factors involved and I welcome anyone to seek me out IC if you wish to know why I seek to follow a human god. All gods are not created equal in their ways of faith and worship. Thisiana might seek to follow tempus, but she still worships and pays her respects to corellon and the rest of the pantheon.

The actual constructive comments on this thread such as requiring an application for special role plays and the elven newbie area I fully support. It's perfectly fine to recommend these types of things, but don't just start spouting jibberish to spite other players that don't fit your stereotypical mold just for the heck of it, especially without even taking the time to find out the most important thing... WHY are they doing it?

Guess I am probably making waves, but it is what it is. I won't derail the thread any further.

No actually he doesn't follow Corellon There are other gods of the Seldarine(Elven Pantheon) a ranger, sun elf can follow, and apply for. If you would like to know more information, then feel free to PM me.

I attribute these attitudes to a lack of racism in game. It revolves more around good vs evil than race vs race or law vs chaos, with both latter more reflective of how the FR and our society was/is than good vs evil (though you probably read more of this theme in novels).

If there are no IC repurcussions for the characters in game, all that remains is for us to artificially modify the surroundings and circumstances to force them into a certain mould.

So far, the official change that has come of this discussion is that every sun elf will now depart character creation as a hopeful of Corellon. Sun elves who wish to differ in their religious choice may apply for a change. This change was made because it appears to be the consensus of players and staff that sun elves should, in large part, follow the Seldarine; this solution may seem ham-handed, but it is the only way to realistically (i.e. by code) enforce that standard on a large scale. I do not believe there is a staff member who has the time, resources, or desire to follow every sun elf around and keep tabs on their religion.

This has been added to the help file for sun elves and the help file for applications. I have also linked a number of relevant help files to the sun elf help file.

You should feel free to post questions or opinions here! Thanks.

Can anything be done for sun-elves prior to this change, that have not continued their present faith path because of cultural ignorance at the creation of the toon? Anything beyond a reroll that is.

Are you asking about PCs already an accepted member of another faith or those in the process of applying to one?

PC is at quest complete and not yet advanced to initiate. Non-seldarine faith. Sent more detail through applications.

You will have a reply from Applications, but right now there has been no official policy established regarding existing sun elves.

I still advocate that current sunelves created before the change be excused from this rule and those created afterwards be bound by it. Gives a bit of leeway to existing players and a starting point for the policy.

We removed the option of making an evil moon elf PC because they are described as being inherently good creatures.

Now another question is with this re-orienting of sun elves, should we consider re-opening the evil path with moon elves? Some sources aside, there are evil elves in existence, and it is a completely valid/popular option in PNP. The question is as a community, and a game, are we all agreed in saying 'There are no evil elves, only virtue and good, we are the Blessed People.' Perhaps this now is an appropriate place for paying kismet to be the exception?