Raise dead/Resurrection discussion

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:36 am

Exer wrote:I remember a while back that the imms did a test with the prices. I'm all for raising the cost of the spell for anyone above lvl 35.

I believe the cost is relative to level actually, last time I died on Laerith it cost nearly 40 platinum to raise me... MUCH more expensive than finding a PC priest...

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:19 am

Actually, I believe that NPC raise deads are more expensive than a PC raising no matter level. And it gets more expensive the higher the level, a PC raising costs about 1-2 platinum on average, a NPC costs 6+ I believe.

Exer · Post by **Exer** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:14 am

I realize that the higher your lvl the more expensive it is. Though if it's set to 1 plat per lvl, then it should be just fine. 50 plat to raise a lvl 50 sounds about right. Forces you to find a PC cleric.

Micheal · Post by **Micheal** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:03 am

Ah ha, you can have a MOB raise you. This greatly explains why in the last several months no one has asked me to raise them. That simple correlation helps to prove that this is a problem. Who out there that plays a priest has raised the same number of people per week since this change.

I think the cost should be drastically raised for folks over 35. Atleast 20 to 30 platinum is good. Death was coded this way to be a punishment and to provide a reason for priests. By having a mob raise dead you are undermining this orginal code change.

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:22 pm

I too agree that the mob raisings should be significantly higher, as well as perhaps a raise in gem costs for PC raisings? Just 1-2 platinum for such a powerful prayer is a bit unbalanced, 7 platinum sounds like it would be happy median.

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:35 am

I did not know if I should have put this in the "Raise dead/ressurection discussion" and I didn't want to to draw away from that thread so if it should be, if a admin could move this it would be much appreciated

Anyways, I was wondering if the raise dead mana cost could be moved up in cost considerably? I think in my opinion that such a taxing spell ICly would have a much higher mana cost, any thoughts or criticism on the idea?

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:36 am

Telk wrote:I too agree that the mob raisings should be significantly higher, as well as perhaps a raise in gem costs for PC raisings? Just 1-2 platinum for such a powerful prayer is a bit unbalanced, 7 platinum sounds like it would be happy median.

I would say, which comments on the thread that this thread jumped off of... 25 plat for a spell that gets you from one place to another... yet now it only costs a couple plat to be able to cast a spell that yanks a dead man's soul from the fugue plane back to the realm of the living?

Not only is death no longer inconvenient, it's not even costly!

Athon · Post by **Athon** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:12 am

In my opinion, I don't think this would do much of a difference. Raise dead isn't a spell that you'd use in the heat of the battle or while in the midst of a dangerous adventure. It is an RP spell, really, and the priest would most likely have time for an easy meditate afterwards, thus cancelling any extra mana that would be added. I do not believe this change would be needed at the time.

Athon

Talamar · Post by **Talamar** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:23 am

I think honestly that the lower cost was considered for newer characters. While I don't want to put words into the Staff's mouth, I can only assume that they would expect more experienced players to seek out priests and the like, before resorting to using a Mob for ressurection/raising.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:04 am

I think that, indeed, that is what is expected (by most of the staff). And it seems that all those who post here agree. Yet, from what I have observed in game, most players just drag the corpse (or ask for their corpse to be dragged) to an NPC priest who, for sure, will not ask for an IC service in exchange for the resurrection, and will not generate any roleplay.

The exchange often goes like this:

dead tells friend: Hello. I am dead, this is X. Can you get my belongings?
friend tells dead: Yes, where did you die?
dead tells friend: In Howling Peak, in the guard barrack.

(friend goes to get corpse)

dead tells friend: So, what? Are you going to get my corpse or not?
friend tells friend: I am on my way. Give me some time.

(friend gets the corpse, drags it to an NPC mob, pays for ress)

dead says to friend: Thanks
dead walks east

I don't think that the cost gets increased just for fun, just to make life harder on the players, nor that rules get added just to be able to punish players when they don't respect them. We have players of all ages and all levels of maturity; players with different kinds of play too (some powerlevellers, some equipment twinks, some roleplayers, some explorers, ...) and these rules/increased costs/other requirements are there to state clearly what is expected from the players on FK, which is obviously necessary (according to the example rp I mentionned above).

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:51 am

Talamar wrote:I think honestly that the lower cost was considered for newer characters. While I don't want to put words into the Staff's mouth, I can only assume that they would expect more experienced players to seek out priests and the like, before resorting to using a Mob for ressurection/raising.

So, barring the NPC insta-raise, or cheap obsidian, what about a situation more like before the changes, with a new help file on death, and more during the newbie training, saying something on the grounds of:

"Death is something taken very seriously on FK, it is a roleplay situation when you die, and it can result in a significant amout of time, effort, and/or expense to get resurrected. If you do not wish to incur this investment in the case of your untimely demise, you have the option to Reincarnate, which will not only cost you experience, but also cost you a point of constitution, and you will still have to get your former remains retrieved. To better your chance of survival in hostile areas, making friends IC and forming parties is recommended."

Reincarnate was an already existent means for easy resurrection for newbies. As a newbie, I used it twice after stupid mistakes.... I lost two points of constitution. :::shrug::: I made that choice and paid the price.

In tabletop, you lose the point of Con for any form of resurrection, short of divine restoration. You also have a chance of not surviving the resurrection, based on your constitution. So in tabletop, the char who dies frequently loses con, decreasing their survival chance, and ultimately, dies permanently. FK chars already had it better than this, even before the mobs and cheaper obsidian.

Difficult and/or costly resurrection helps discourage unchecked pkill, it helps discourage solo twinking, it helps discourage bullrushing thru a difficult quest area: It builds better RP MUDs many different ways.

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:37 pm

I look at it this way, mud time varies from rl time in that it is condensed and hours become ten minute intervals. The act of ressurection is probably the greatest of the divine spells, it litterally enables one to bring about the miracle of life returning to a fallen form. Spells like that are oft to be broken into several parts. One part the prespell, the next the Prayer of execution of the spell, then the actual spell enaction and the verifacation and thankful prayer of the spell and finally the termination of the spell/prayer ceremony. All together such things have a huge cost which is worth it so to speak. The dead shall rise, the taxing hand of work is felt and rest shall follow, pious rest that helps reafirm the deed done that day.

So if you can oocly raise maybe 5-10 fallen pcs in one sitting don't do so icly unless there is good reason, relax now and then and admire all the weight you lose casting the most taxing prayer possible

Rhytania · Post by **Rhytania** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:14 pm

Hmm Permanent Death. Maybe make a small chance for NPC priest to fail a res, the chance being greater the higher level you are combined with your Con level for permanent death. Thereby forcing all but the truly desperate or stupid to take the chance with NPC priests. I gaurantee more people would use the NPC less and use the PC priests. The PC priests of course would generate roleplay to their satisfaction and everyone is happy all around.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:45 pm

Yeah, I saw some v. good Rp once where a priestess nearly collapsed after raising her second body within (I think) about half an hour irl.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:15 pm

When it first came in, I was firmly against the NPC Raise Dead ability for the reasons mentioned in my prior post. But I learned to understand the reasoning in certain instances. But people are going to far and avoiding player priests all together, which is the problem. Price based on level of the character is a good idea (not sure if it actually works that way or not, I dont use the NPC priests to raise my characters). Nysan never really had a steady stream of players seeking his aid, but I noticed the change. From the posts here, others have too. I don't want the NPC ability removed, it does help newbies who don't know anyone and the late night gamer. But we need something. Raised cost, limited number of uses per character, or even start logging it and watching for abusing players (though i would hate to see more work put on a already overworked staff just becuse some players are lazy). I'm lost on a solution but this is a big problem in my eyes.

N.R.
(Active support of mundane travel and the tavern tales it spawns, real or imagined.)

Argentia · Post by **Argentia** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:31 pm

Hmm, I have always been curious about this, so it's time I asked.

When a character dies, all their equipment and items are stripped into their corpse. When the person is raised/ressurected/whatever they are done so with their equipment still stripped. This is simply code, nothing that can be done about it. But I have noticed a large amount of people(myself included) always RP that raised person as being nude until they "wear all" or slip on a pair of leggings, ect. But when you think about it, IC that equipment would never come off. It does not magically fall off when the person dies or is raised... I am simply curious about others' thoughts/comments about this, because my character is in contact with many fallen(especially young fallen) adventurers and I'd like to change my RP accordingly.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:36 pm

My thoughts on this is that it would be similar to when a char shapechanges.

In code, when a char shapechanges, all worn and held equipment get removed and put into their inventory.

IC, the equipment is supposed to be assumed into the shapechanged form, as per the D&D book description of the spell. Which is why stealing from a shapechanged char is a particular sort of code abuse that is frowned on... IC, that equipment is just not there to steal.

When a shapechaged char reverts, he reverts without his items equipped, but it is wrong to IC play as if the person is naked, because as the spell would assume the equipment into the form, it would likewise trasfrorm the equipment back to the proper size shape and place once reverted. Sometimes I will give an OOC disclaimer when I revert from shapechange, or sometimes I will just revert a tile away, reequip and come back into the room where others are.

When a person dies, in code, they turn into a corpse, the corpse is a container to facilitate removal or (limited) looting of items from the corpse. IC, you are right, death would not actually strip you of your belongings.... so it seems the logical thing to do would be to RP it that all the equipment is still on their body.

Of course, if it is a reincarnation, or a divine ressurection, where a new body is actually created, leaving the old corpse, then, yes... the alive person is QUITE bare as the belongings are still on the old corpse.

Timaeus · Post by **Timaeus** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:07 pm

This topic has been brought up in another thread actually.

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... php?t=2130

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:49 pm

Hmm, I've been wondering about that myself.
I suppose nudity is RPed in cases of resurrection and reincarnation but not in raise dead...

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:03 pm

It's all up to what you the character feel should be adressed. In my experience the return of the living from the dead is enough to make you forget little details like clothing. But it is different for everyone.

Raise dead/Resurrection discussion

Raise dead mana cost

Corpses and their equipment