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Casamir wrote:

We removed the option of making an evil moon elf PC because they are described as being inherently good creatures.

Now another question is with this re-orienting of sun elves, should we consider re-opening the evil path with moon elves? Some sources aside, there are evil elves in existence, and it is a completely valid/popular option in PNP. The question is as a community, and a game, are we all agreed in saying 'There are no evil elves, only virtue and good, we are the Blessed People.' Perhaps this now is an appropriate place for paying kismet to be the exception?

I never understood why moon elves were restricted to good/neutral. Moon elves aren't inherently good. There are moon elves that are raised within cities outside of Evermeet/Evereska/The Moonwood. Moon elves are more commonly found among humans, and I would think more easily swayed to paths of evil(considering the moon elves that have been evil in books, etc). I could see this being one of the things you pay more kismet for perhaps, if you wish to have an evil elf. *shrugs*

I would see it costing closer 50 kismet cost like half-elves, which seems to have done its job of making humans more popular again, than something like the 200 for Drow. But then I also think half drow should be 100, so...

The moon elf good predilection, as best as I can tell, is recently rooted in the Races of Faerun supplement.

...they are so much more friendly and accommodating to other races than many other elves... pg. 38

Like their allies the Harpers, moon elves believe that a single person of good heart who stands up to injustice or evil can make a big difference. The typical moon elf adventurer tends to be a wandering protector of the common folk, not a dungeon plundering slayer of monsters. pg. 38

Despite their open minds, moon elves have little patience or interest in the various evil beings, and they hold orcs and gnolls in particular contempt. They avoid regions where such cultures hold sway, although moon elf adventurers often infiltrate these areas to spy on them. pg. 39

...but there are comments back in 2E about their "inherent goodness" too (Running the Realms, pg. 9).

The moon elves to me followed these guidlines:

-The moon elves were created from a goodly deity, therefore they are good
- Evil moon elves can exist because of free will, but it is exceedingly rare.
- Evil moon elves are never accepted by the general elf population and are hunted and mistrusted among the majority of their race.

Therefore if applied to fr lore we have a race of elves that are inherently good with very few if any exceptions. Its highly simplified though.

In my experience I like to see elves as an antithesis to orcs, in the sense that elves do one thing, orcs do the opposite, thus most if not all orcs are evil and most if not all elves are good. Wherein a goodly orc is shunned by its race or hunted, an evil moon elf would experience the same, or should.

Sun elves on the other hand, rich, haughty and noble, can probably pursue a nihilistic lifestyle in or outside their societies until they're found out or deal with their enemies.

Of course, I am not opposed to moon elf evil applications, but otherwise as I mentioned, I am of the opinion that the majority should be good aligned via code.

Hi! Much of this thread makes me sad as a role-player. I understand that people want to play tweaked characters, I mean...Drizzt is a bad @$$. Heck, I wanted to play a drow of Eilistraee and that's in the books, reference heavily in the dragon magazines, Elves of Evermeet, Elaine Cunningham books, Candlekeep Forums and the like...but I was told that would never happen because people wanted to keep the drow element more in line with most of FR.

When I created my character, my tabletop experience did not include elves. For me an elf is a Tolkien elf, but I digress. I pulled out my 1st, 2nd and 3rd edition books that I spent a tremendous sum of money on (only to find that WOTC pdf'd alot of them for free! bastages) and researched elves and elven culture. Since I was a noobie player, my option was to play a moonelf. Not having much of a background on playing a NG moon elf, I play her just like it's written in the books with a tweak here and there. For me, that is far more challenging. I really have to check myself. I ask questions of the players I trust. She will do the stereotypical moon elf stuff and it makes for great rp.

As I started to play, I have become discouraged by the lack of canon elf role-play, despite there being a large sum of elf-players. I'm well and good to make my own but if I meet another elf, I expect them to be more of the pointy eared human variety. The reasons for this can be anything from lack of FR lore to "humans raised my character". My question to staff is how close to canon do you want to to be?

Faith is a touchy issue. From an outsider point of view, faith in this game is a clique. I recall this being an issue with other games and the question when it comes to elves would be: how would Corellon feel about this other deity? If it's not favorable, your new faith would demand that you forsaken a heretic faith. The Seldarine encompass every aspect (including the dark stuff) of elven culture. You want a war aspect? Got it. You want a magic aspect. Got it! You want a forest aspect? Got it! You want a dark aspect. Got it. You want evil...now there's an interesting question. Because I think elves can and should be allowed to be evil. These are the elves that go out and slaughter humans that venture into the forests. These are elves that do out and pit humans against orcs and then kill any survivors. These are elves who plot vengeance for decades upon decades a la Doctor Doom. All in all, they cling to their culture and heritage. They are the crazy cousins that the other elves smile politely and don't talk about.

When it come to the First Born of the children, if that elf was raised with other elves...especially their Golden brethern, I can almost see one worshipping Mystra whom Corellon likes but Corellon is a major power of elven magic. I can see any nature God/Goddess but there's a few Seldarine that encompass that aspect as well. If the elf in question casts off their heritage (serious self-hate),ok...I can roll with it. I can't really see this playing both sides of the fence in any kind of obvious manner.

I kinda wish I didn't read this thread because it's making me jaded and that's unfair to any player in question especially given this small player base.

So... this means I can make a Drow of Eilistraee? j/k

The staff can do little more than set the conditions, and nudge through role-play with NPCs here and there to maintain the setting. The strength of the setting really rests with the players. Your PCs have far more influence over other PCs than any rules written by the staff. For this reason, the staff limits itself to very general rules and then shapes role-play through various coded mechanisms (kismet, applications, etc.).

Hi Esselwyr, welcome to the game and forums.
I'm not sure I understand your post, are you jaded by the fact that PCs are not playing elves correctly, or that we are restricting what PCs are allowed to do? As you have observed, even in playing generically good moon elves, the player base has trouble keeping to the canon. I do not disagree that Mystran sun elves or even evil elves are entirely plausible under the right pretext, but roleplaying them is all the more challenging than a regular character. As a general rule, exceptional characters require exceptional roleplaying, and if we had enough exceptional roleplaying, then the game would be great even without those characters. Roleplaying is also never the action of one, so it is not enough that you are an exceptional roleplayer to play an exceptional character, but the general playerbase must be exceptional to interact with one.

For example, you want to play a drow of Eilistraee. Suppose the staff granted that application. Well if players are RPing correctly, all the Lolthian drows will be looking to hunt you down as soon as you reveal your faith. If you make it to the surface, you will also be persecuted heavily. Knowledge of Eilistraee is not widespread in the Realms and belief in your character's personal integrity will be even less forthcoming. At the very least, the majority of elves should not be able to accept your character, and most should be happy to kill you on sight. As the only good-aligned drow in the game, you'd be playing entirely alone, is that really what you want? Even if it is, the next question is, can we trust the playerbase to react appropriately to your character? It seems likely to me that most goodly PCs will be more accepting of you than is believable, because who doesn't love a unique character and a martyr, and who can really accurately portray racial bigotry when they don't carry that sentiment IRL? Thirdly, what would happen if everyone wanted to play a good drow character? Drizzt is, after all, the most popular character in Realmslore. If it comes to pass that the majority our drow PCs are of good and neutral alignment, is our FR source still recognizable in the game, and can we still derive any meaningful RP interactions from that source? Unfortunately, these are the type of issues that must be taken into consideration.

That said, I should also note that no matter how small a population, barring a population of one, it might be inevitable for any rulebase to disagree with someone. I have my fair share of qualms with the state of the game but am personally happy with the result of this thread.