Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Aye. I agree with you there Lukon..the Experience change at the moment doesn't bother me except for the levels one through 10. I have had a newbie talk to me and tell me he is getting his butt kicke and anytime he gets near leveling up he dies..to the dummies in the font no less. I think those levels shouldn't be to hard to get..now when you move on to the next step it is not so bad..I mean its slower yes but not too slow and your skills go gradually up between each levels more so than when you could get five levels in an hour..that is a plus to me. It might be a bit harder for mages to start out at first now though.

Just for the anecdote...

When I form up groups for special roleplays, I always avoid the characters with extra elite skills. Partly because they are often played by players who wouldn't get well along with a group and would be bad at sharing the "glory" with others. But also - more importantly - because they would just chop my monsters to dice and make the others look useless (and if I increase the toughness of the mobs, I risk killing off the other characters).

Sooo... yes, growing up and getting nice skills is a valid goal for sure. But this is one of the adverse consequences of too much training.

My wizard character is level 11 now, and I can't join the guild I want him to join until I raise hix dex some more, which means I'm stuck waiting at least until level 15, and until I join a guild, I can't learn levitate, and without levitate, traveling is really tough. So far I have knowledge geography at amatuer, and that's walking around on foot. Of all my characters, this wizard has the highest knowledge geo.

I try to role-play a lot, but as I said, I am in dire need of the levitate spell. So if I power-level, it's only to gain the levels to get that much required spell.

As an old timer coming back into the new changes they seem quite obvious to me. There are pros and cons between the old and new. In many many ways I think the new is so much more preferable.

The focus has been taken OFF of getting that level and reaching that cap. I remember when Nedylene was first made High Priestess of Shar I spent nearly four weeks of consistant hack and slash killing to get the last three levels to get to level 50 because then it was required to be level 50. Let me tell you... that was my WORSE four weeks on this mud. I hated it. Hated the feeling that I was 'forced' to be that high just to get what they wanted to offer me through rp. Now... it is not even an issue. You can completely focus on the rp and the people around you and make it through just fine. I love it. Kudos on the change. I also remember being able to solo places like Feebovs and that getting a group together to go was difficult because most people had 'been there, done that'. In other words had finished the quest and looted everything without even having to split any rewards with anyone else. It was aweful. I cannot express how estatic I am that being a higher level I can ACTUALLY help people! I love the fact that grouping is much more prevelent and that people actively needs to seek out a person who can help them, heal them, etc. This is a wonderful, wonderful change. I love the fact that not everyone and their brother is level 50 now. I love that even my own personally characters I get that distinct feeling of satisfaction when I get enough exp for that spell or this level.

Now the cons... It is the same as others have said. I have brought a few of my new friends into the mud with me to try it out and see how they like it. Levels 1-10 are VERY hard. They are struggling and wondering if it is worth it. They are getting frustrated because outside of the newbie temple it is very very hard to do anything before level 10. And .. as they said.. the rp isn't all that great in the newbie temple. The newbie temples are really meant as a way for the people inside to get to know the commands, ask questions, get used to the syntax and things so they can go out and explore. Even giving the dummies and slaves etc in the newbie temples a higher ratio of exp per kill/hit then they would recieve in the outside world would be nice OR .... maybe a different network of quests/deliveries for those level 1-10? A delivery service or a messenger service that can be done more then once and only give the player exp/coin and no glory? Sort of like a quest that will generate a random person/message and reset the qbits to 0 and only offered to those under level 10? I appologize if that was vague. I am unsure if it is even possible with out qbits.

Nedylene wrote: The focus has been taken OFF of getting that level and reaching that cap. I remember when Nedylene was first made High Priestess of Shar I spent nearly four weeks of consistant hack and slash killing to get the last three levels to get to level 50 because then it was required to be level 50. Let me tell you... that was my WORSE four weeks on this mud. I hated it. Hated the feeling that I was 'forced' to be that high just to get what they wanted to offer me through rp.

In what way? I don't really understand how the new xp system changes the focus. You still need levels, and skills. In your example the only change would have been that you would have been required to spend months hacking and slashing for those last three levels rather than weeks.

Now... it is not even an issue. You can completely focus on the rp and the people around you and make it through just fine. I love it. Kudos on the change.

How? As has been said repeatedly, levelling and getting skills is part of your characters RP and development, I don't see how making both of them much harder to gain suddenly radically shifts the focus of the game.

I also remember being able to solo places like Feebovs and that getting a group together to go was difficult because most people had 'been there, done that'. In other words had finished the quest and looted everything without even having to split any rewards with anyone else. It was aweful. I cannot express how estatic I am that being a higher level I can ACTUALLY help people! I love the fact that grouping is much more prevelent and that people actively needs to seek out a person who can help them, heal them, etc. This is a wonderful, wonderful change.

How does changing the amount of xp you get alter any of that? If people are capable of soloing Feebov's, it just means they have to spend more time doing it, it doesn't suddenly make them dependant on a group to do so. That would seem to have more to do with the difficulty of the mobs than with the experience system.

I love that even my own personally characters I get that distinct feeling of satisfaction when I get enough exp for that spell or this level.

Speaking as a lowbie, the only thing getting enough xp to level means to me is "Yay, only another week or so before I can actually leave the newbie temple and actually start thinking about RP and faiths and guilds!"

Sooo... yes, growing up and getting nice skills is a valid goal for sure. But this is one of the adverse consequences of too much training.

Well yes, but as mentioned that's likely to become more of an issue, since under the new system people are likely going to have skills significantly higher relative to their level than they did under the old.

That is probably my biggest complaint with the current changes, and I know you said options are being considered, but at present, with both skills and levels being dependent on xp, if you want to make any kind of progress you have to devote hours, whether grouped or not, to simply grinding away on mobs.

I don't really think 'reward' is a viable option. For one, Immortals are not on all the time, nor can they be everywhere at once. And that's not a complaint, I fully understand that the staff have their own lives, and in addition they have mortal alts they like to play and building/coding other responsiblities on the game. As for mortals, aside from the fact that reward can only be used once a day, it also has a kismet cost. And I'm not sure it would be a good idea to make a significant part of your experience gaining requiring other players to give up hard earned kismet.

Wow, this is certainly a hot spot for many people here on the forums.

For the record, it would be nice to have the xp altered a little bit in the newbie trianing pit (as already mentioned, multiple times).

I would also like to say that I have noticed that skills are going up quicker than they did before. When I say before, referring to approximately one year ago.

One issue when you combine these two together, and I think it's almost humorous, is that you are able to be fairly proficient with a weapon by the time you reach level 10. Not complaining, just smiling.

Other than that, just keep in mind that when you try to make everyone happy, you end up making no one happy. Not saying that the game can't be improved, but not everyone will be happy with whatever decisions are made.

I would like to say that Rawlys appears to be correct in his observation that skills appear to be increasing more rapidly than they did for the last year or so - that has also been my subjective experience.

I don't think theres anything wrong with that - certainly someone who has used the same weapon for training against dummies for 10 levels should be somewhat better at it than a fresh-from-the-factory level 1.

I would also say that continuing to point out how you personally are effected by the recent fix to the exp gain function will achieve very little. As has been stated multiple times the coders are perfectly aware that the exp gain was modified, perhaps to some peoples detriment, and further modifications are being considered. Changes to code which will impact on virtually every player are not made without a reasonable amount of analysis of the outcome - I'm sure you'll agree it is better to move incrementally towards an ideal solution than to continue to yo-yo back and forth, changing the exp gaining rates by factors of 3 or more at a time.

Your patience in this matter would be appreciated.

For starters I'm not sure why this debate is going on under bugs, perhaps it should be moved to chat or general.

Saradin she is referring to the old code. I am an old timer too who returned, so much has changed I *needed* to make a new character just to relearn everything.
You do not have to wait until level 10 to leave the newbie temple. I have a character still in the newbie temple that I bring out just to rp. So long as you have done a description and your name is authorized you can leave and do what you want.
When she said "Now it's not even an issue." I believe she was talking about the faith system. Back in the day you *Had* to be level 50 to be a high priest or now faith manager, that isn't required anymore. You do not need to be level 50 to be a faith manager.
Again back in the day when people could solo feebovs it was a different code base and a lot of things were different. We've changed a lot since then. The mobs got a lot harder and started casting spells which they didn't before. I tell you Ceara was surprised when she used to mow down vampires and came back to getting a few acid arrows and flame arrows making a pin cushion out of her. *chuckles*
I do not know how long you have played on FK but we are talking about 5+ years ago. It was an entirely different code system, the mobs were different, skills, spells everything.
Now perhaps things should be a little easier on pc's in the newbie temple but aside from that I haven't really noticed the effect. I don't train much. I don't really see how skills increasing is a detriment, it has taken forever for mine to go up.
Anyway my point is she is talking about years ago, not just the recent changes.

I've been putzing around FK in some form or another for about 6 years now.

Nedylene's post seemed to imply that the recent xp change was directly related to the various other changes in the MUD during that time, and I was curious in what way she thought so.

Level is independent of RP. Sure, if all you are worried about is when you will get your next PK, I can see where skill would be more important. Basically, though, Leveling is not impossible. If you stick with a group, and RP while killing a few monsters here and there. I have seen that the experience goes up nicely, and you don't even realize that it is taking longer. Bottom line is, if you just don't think about it so much, just worry about developing your character, your story, and everything else will fall into place. The imms will figure out the proper direction to take it in when they get the time and notion to do so.

Anyone ever felt like crawling under a rock and hiding? Yeah I feel that way right now =)

First let me say that I am not a coder. I do not know how to code, I cannot crunch numbers.. I have no idea how many times I need to use this said spell for it to go up a level or that skill. To me, the numbers are mind boggling and I could care less about them. Kudos to the coders who understand them, manipulate them and make them work for us.

I have some top level characters and one that is a high level that got energy drained/enervation which is a WHOLE nother issue. (Friendly mobiles that are in dangerous places and have AoE spells should NOT NOT NOT assist in battles that force you to attack them because they used the AoE spell on the monster) Before .. at level 48, working in a group gave you minimal exp. No matter which way you cut the cookie you got more by going solo. And the critters were weak enough that you could easily do it. Now, it has flip flopped. Even as a high/max level character with good skills/spells you absolutely need to bring someone along with you to help you. And even better... the exp in a group goes up quicker. Alot quicker. As one specific case, going through UM with one other player in a group and doing the level 2 quests I left 50% exp richer. Granted it was spent almost immediately on spells and I am still two level energy drained/enervation (Which, btw, restoration did NOT fix and I have a -1 stat point in score and it swiped one of my wisdom points. Will I get that back once I get back to level 50?). But I disgress and get back on the subject. When you utilize the exp system correctly and the RP system correctly you will very rarely go to these hunting grounds alone and the exp change is almost irrelivant when you actually do utilize the group. As Ceara can attest to... this is MUCH different then it was before. Before the only reason to group would be to kill that one extremely difficult creature at the end of the quest or because the staff enforced it. Now.. the reason to group is because you actually GET more out of it. You get to rp, enrich your character, better exp and a way to share the experience of the mud with others.

This still does not help the levels 1-10 issues as it is harder to find people to group with at that level and often when you are working on perfecting that description in word pad or finding that perfect adjective for your character you are spending your time mindlessly... endlessly... killing dummies. Or slaves.. or giant insects.

Does that help explain my point better Saradin? I can always try again if I don't feel completely mortified and make that rock my home =)

Short about me, i'm a novice just started this mud recently i'm approaching 50 hours of gameplay total and this is how I feel:

On my alt I have 17 hours of online time

the first 7 hours on this alt i just bashed dummies to level 8(note this is the highest level i've reached) and then i got name authorized and promoted out of dummy hood (YAY!?)

the other 10 hours i spent on exploring, questing, rping and killing stuff in undermountain and running (big things down there!!)

I havn't gained a single level since i came out of dummyhood ever on any of my alts yet and i've this is what my experience meter says now: "You have just begun your journey to your next level."

Too me its frustrating that i have to spend more time on dummies or trying some kind of RP scene I'm not comfortable with. ( sorry, i dont like sitting still, espeicelly in the market square )

I was hoping reward would come if I go after bigger critters then dummies, but it rewards me less then staying at the dummies

My constructive suggestion is this:
Increase the reward for challenges, be it quests or exploring or killing and make sure its worth the time, then to sit around and grind.

Example of multiplayers:
15% bonus of exerience for each level above you of the foe you kill (max 50-100%?) to make people strive after challenges

20% bonus of each member in your group this would make it more rewarding to group up with people.

add experience to newbie quests, so they are just as rewarding as grinding, rping. ( i've only gotten rich by them.. )

last but not least! add guidance after you get your name authorized! how to get you started in the world after you graduated out of dummyhood. Would greatly help new players.





These guys solved grinding pretty well with this and rewards casual players:

Credits too who (remove all this if inappropiate)
-----------------------------------[ BOOST ]-----------------------------------
Syntax: boost
Syntax: boost power

This command, typed on its own, will display your current number of boost
points, as well as your active boosts. Typing 'boost power' will spend a
boost point to give you ten active boosts. Every time you kill a mob that
awards primal, an active boost will be spent to give you approximately two
and a half times the normal amount of primal. In addition, boosts will be
automatically spent whenever a check to improve a non-maxed skill or style
fails, with each active boost providing an automatic skill or style increase.

Each day that you log on, you will earn 2.5 boost points, minus 0.01 for every
kill you made the previous day (so 2.49 if you killed 1 mob the previous day,
2.48 if you killed 2 mobs, 2.0 if you killed 50 mobs, etc). If you don't log
on for several days, you will not get any boosts for the days you missed.

Note that every kill beyond 250 that you earn on a particular day will be
added to your Age for the purposes of calculating primal for kills, and will
also be carried over to the next day (eg if you get 300 daily kills, you'll
start the next day with 50). Mobs which give no primal don't count towards
this limit, unless they are newbie training mobs (which count as two kills).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

primal = experience

And hopefully this idea give you ideas would make it more rewarding to group up, casual players, but still possible to solo and refrain from grinding these stupid dummies!

This is an interesting system. We are currently exploring other options like the one you suggest, with "decreasing return". In plain terms: the more you train/kill stuff, the lower the progression rate is.

With an example: the first ten mobs you kill on any day grants you full experience and normal skill increase, then the next ten mobs gives out only 90% of experience and 9/10 of normal skill increase, and so on. The more you train/kill stuff, the lower the benefit you gain from it.

How would this effect skills that don't interact with killing or fighting at all? Would it lower their progression if persay you killed such and such thing?
Would it be suspended in the newbie pit for levels 1-10 so they could get out and such. Find in character type outfittings and the like?

I have yet to start a new character on this system, but I do have a note on an old character of mine, the first character I've ever had to reach 50 (as of yesterday)-- it seems to have happened a lot faster under this system than it would have under the old one. Granted, I was in a party I'd collected for a quest that required fighting relatively strong mobs, but just finishing a quest and working on the proceeding quest (I didn't even get the second one finished before someone had to go) took me from one-third at 49 to being able to go up to 50. It probably took about an hour, with a fair bit of roleplay thrown in, so we weren't just killing things.

I've also seen a lot more progression in my skills, it seems like, though I haven't collected any concrete evidence to this effect.

If the same behavior isn't having as much of an impact on lower-level characters XP-wise, I can see how it would be frustrating, but I do think the greater value of "reward" is a great idea, especially considering we can reward each other for good stuff even if the IMMs aren't watching.

I have to agree with Amalia for I had the impression that on the high levels, say 45-50 one gets exp just for..being online or so. Looking on the score it stated like 37% on the way of the next level. About 30 minutes later it was 38% and I did nothing, just rping Does that mean one gets the exp for free?

On score? The experience % thing was removed?

Before it got removed

Ah. I dunno. IT seems experioence gaining isn't to bad at lower levels and is nice the way it is. While it progressively gets harder to gain moer experience. Which is how it should be imho. The stronger you get the more emphasis on it to find a gruop and go out together. To find growth..make new stories and evolve your character into its fullest potential.

Just like to add:
I discovered I was loosing experience cause i was flee'ing did not help me at all trying to progress, but still i think i could have earned something there. I did get rich... anyway..

I switched place, it went alot smoother, and went up a level, but damn i killed alot of goblins.



Grom if you was asking me; they choose when you use the boosts with that system, so you dont waste time on training dolls, cause it all got counter-productive if you end up killing to many creatures.