Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Last message implied Divine power spell expiring, from memory Divine power gives you some temporary HP. It may be the removal of these that actually caused the death ?.


Duranamir

Tested this with Garumsh on Wrok.

When on killmode stun the PC affected with Blade Barrier will not be able to be stun for 2 or 3 rounds.

With Blade Barrier and Fury together the PC affected will be shown as stunned but still able to fight for a VERY LONG time (For Wrok it lasted over 10 rounds with the Blade Barrier still hitting Garumsh and Garumsh not able to land a single hit on Wrok), and when Garumsh was stunned by the Blade Barrier, Wrok was also stunned. (Got the message, Your fury subsides, leaving you weak, after Garumsh was stunned).

Blade Barrier is still bugged. After being told it was fixed by "someone" (er someone that wasn't me, Kelemvor or Oghma *sardonic smile*) he used it in at least one Pfight. It still continues to fight for him after he is stunned. Kel changed the component needed for the spell, temporarily halting its in-game use, at my request.

Not to mention Blade Barrier does /way/ more than it's suppose to. You should only be hit by blade barrier one time. This spell has always bothered me. Same goes for the elemental shields.

I promised myself I wouldn't bitch about it until it was brought up naturally, so I didn't seem like a whiner. But seriously. Ridiculously overpowered - those spells do way more than any other spell in the game.


Evocation [Force]
Level: Clr 6, Good 6, War 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Wall of whirling blades up to 20 ft. long/ level, or a ringed wall of whirling blades with a radius of up to 5 ft. per two levels; either form 20 ft. high
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Reflex half or Reflex negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

An immobile, vertical curtain of whirling blades shaped of pure force springs into existence. Any creature passing through the wall takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6), with a Reflex save for half damage.

If you evoke the barrier so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall. Each such creature can avoid the wall (ending up on the side of its choice) and thus take no damage by making a successful Reflex save.

A blade barrier provides cover (+4 bonus to AC, +2 bonus on Reflex saves) against attacks made through it.

Horace wrote:You should only be hit by blade barrier one time.

Really? I assume you mean once per round you attack the PC with it on? I envision this whirling wall of blades that can take a nip at you every time you try to attack through them.

The description of the spell describes it as a wall rather than an encircling barrier around the caster. That means that others would only be hit by it as many times as they move across the wall, rather than continuously whenever they attack the caster. The limitation, of course, is that the world is not 3D or even 2D(Is it even 1D? That's mind boggling) so you cannot specify a place for the wall to form.

The spell description that Horace posted has an important piece of information:

Effect: Wall of whirling blades up to 20 ft. long/ level, or a ringed wall of whirling blades with a radius of up to 5 ft. per two levels; either form 20 ft. high

So the wall is perhaps this height and this width, but it is also encircling the caster at a distant of up to five feet. In general, your arm span is the same as your height; your reach is therefore something like half your height; a sword is, on average, between two and four feet in length; the total likely distance between you and an opponent is between two and six feet in many situations (although, because only four inches of penetration are necessary to kill, a well-performed thrust could kill a man at a distance of approximately nine feet). To make a long story short, it is possible that you would make contact with the wall of blades described each time you attacked the caster with a melee weapon or touch-based attack.

Realistically, I believe it sensible for balance issues that the attacker encounter the wall perhaps once per round.

The intention of the spell is to make potential attackers halt at the idea of attacking you, since they have to cross something not unlike a wall of flame spell. It is devastating against a large group of mobs much lower than the caster - against an enemy of equal level it is annoying, because it forces you to take (essentially) a fireball's worth of damage to get rid of that damned cover AC.

Elemental shield and Blade Barrier are ridiculously overpowered...I can't comment on why they are the way they are, but I assume the elemental shields were done so at a time where that casters required a spell that lasted forever and provided auto hit return damage of significant portions.

Even as a level 8 spell they'd be pushing the limits of the strength of spell level. I could see them both at level 9, as they are written.

"a well-performed thrust could kill a man at a distance of approximately nine feet"

I'm sorry, if your thrusting at me from 9 feet away while you are concentrating at the wall of blades and managed them to not deflect for me, all i would need to do is step aside, 9 feet takes a lot of movement to thrust and much time to give the attackee to simple step away, not to mention they can deflect the thrust just as simple

That's not the point. The point is it's busted. Same goes for the elemental shields.

I have a hard time believing that I'm the first person who has ever said this. These kind of spells don't exist in DnD. They exist in stock muds that don't have a setting with rules easily available to them. And usually these "reflecting damage" spells do a small portion of the damage done. With these, they often do more damage in return than the attacker does on the person using the spell.

Plus, blade barrier should be immobile. The spell should be a one room spell.

Horace comes at this from the DnD pen-and-paper angle. I come at it from the historical or realistic angle. Neither is exactly suitable so I believe that we need a synthesis between the sources and what works best for the game. I propose two solutions:

-the Blade Barrier spell hits each attacker when they attack. So when combat begins or when it begins again (someone engages again after being rescued, for example).

-the Blade Barrier spells hit each attack each round of combat, but for less damage then it currently does.

Two suggestions regarding the duration of the spell:

-the Blade Barrier spell remains in place until it runs out. (If the caster leaves the room then the spell remains where it was cast and it damages them as they pass out of it).

-the Blade Barrier spell moves with the caster, but ends when the caster is stunned. (They are maintaining it by their concentration and cannot do so when stunned.)

It'd be fine if it did way less damage. That would fix both blade barrier and E-shield.

You can make them do 10% of damage inflicted on the caster (1% for inept - 10% for gm).

Then for blade barrier you can give it a +4 cover bonus.

Types of bonuses to AC (size modifier, armor, shield, deflection, luck, insight, unnamed, enhancement, cover, natural armor, special, sacred, and unnamed, plus maybe some I'm missing)

I don't think there is anything in game that grants cover. So it wouldn't be useless like mage armor is useless to someone already wearing armor of +4 to AC or greater.

2 levels for +4 AC is a good deal. So it'd still be much better then E-shield.

------------
edited to add: making it a % reflection on damage done would also remove the mirror image tactic that doesn't make sense - if you hit an illusion with a fake illusion of the spell, you shouldn't take damage...whether it's of blades or of elements.

Raona wrote:Really? I assume you mean once per round you attack the PC with it on? I envision this whirling wall of blades that can take a nip at you every time you try to attack through them.

By core it's 1 attack period - unless something crazy happens that forces you to keep attacking through a wall of blades.

It's really essentially suppose to be something like a delayed fireball, except going off many times and only affecting whoever triggered it...and also not moving. In core it's a great spell for when you need to escape from a bunch of little dinky bad guys (since the wall will keep them from following) or to super blender a load of undead who don't know better than to walk into a wall of blades.

In Fk - it's the Holy Grail of spells (along with E-shields), it makes you damn near invincible.

Personally, when I'm about to fight a mob with an elemental shield, I go into nofight and just kill'em with spells, that way I only take their wussy melee damage.

But that only works vs mobs, and only for casters.

Surely the spell was not intended to be so OP?

Just a gentle reminder - this is a bug reporting forum not a debating forum.

Mask will likely miss half of your eloquism when he comes to look at the spell.

Blade Barrier and elemental shields work as we have coded them to work. Actually, this is true of a number of spells - they do not always match the canon description and have been made to work in a way that sits better with a MUD.

The only issue here is that the spell continues to operate when the wearer is stunned and that they therefore become effectively invulnerable in a stunmode PvP situation.

Feel free to move the discussion elements of this post to the appropriate forum - or ask one of us and we'll move it for you.

If I really cared I would have brought it up two years ago. As it is, this is the first time I've seen it come up naturally so I feel like I can bitch conscience free and allow at the same time everyone else to realize how incredibly broken the two spells are.

Thanks for the heads, though.

The red dragon northeast of Zhentil Keep, when beaten and stunned on killmode stun, will continuously attack whoever it's fighting until you finally switch killmodes and end it.


log: (sort of)


[49% HP][71 MP][94% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[44% HP][71 MP][93% SP]You begin to chant.

[72% HP][71 MP][93% SP]Your critical wounds close and your pain ebbs away.
You attack a red dragon as he gets within your weapon's reach.
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!
A red dragon's claws rake across your head, inflicting heavy wounds.

[67% HP][68 MP][93% SP]
A red dragon's claws rake across your right arm, inflicting light wounds.

[67% HP][68 MP][93% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[62% HP][68 MP][93% SP]
A red dragon's bite deeply penetrates your left arm.

[59% HP][68 MP][93% SP]
With a bonecrunching sound a red dragon's wing buffet violently smashes your head.

[57% HP][68 MP][93% SP]
A red dragon's wing buffet deftly wing buffets your head.

[57% HP][68 MP][93% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[52% HP][68 MP][93% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.

[52% HP][68 MP][93% SP]You begin to chant.

[80% HP][68 MP][93% SP]Your critical wounds close and your pain ebbs away.

[80% HP][64 MP][93% SP]A Cave in the Mountains
Exits: Leave
You enter a large cave set into the back of a large hill. You
notice that most of the vegetation near the cave has been burned away
and there are bones heaped in one corner. Bits of rags cover some of
the bones and you can see that they once belonged to peasants, probably
from one of the villages around here.
( 2) A bone lies half buried in the ground here. (perfect)
A scale lies on the ground here. (perfect)
(Black Aura) a red dragon is lying here stunned.

[80% HP][64 MP][93% SP]A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[75% HP][64 MP][93% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[71% HP][64 MP][92% SP]
You attack a red dragon as he gets within your weapon's reach.
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!
A red dragon's claws penetrates your head.

[65% HP][64 MP][92% SP]
A red dragon's claws deeply stabs your chest.

[62% HP][64 MP][92% SP]
A red dragon's bite deeply stabs your chest.

[58% HP][64 MP][92% SP]
A red dragon's wing buffet violently wing buffets your chest.

[57% HP][64 MP][92% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[53% HP][64 MP][92% SP]
With a bonecrunching sound a red dragon's wing buffet skillfully smashes your head.

[52% HP][64 MP][92% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[47% HP][64 MP][92% SP]You begin to chant.

[77% HP][64 MP][92% SP]Your critical wounds close and your pain ebbs away.

[77% HP][61 MP][92% SP]
You attack a red dragon as he gets within your weapon's reach.
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!
A red dragon's claws deeply stabs your chest.
A red dragon's claws rake across your right arm, inflicting heavy wounds.

[69% HP][61 MP][92% SP]
A red dragon's claws penetrates your right arm.

[67% HP][61 MP][92% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[62% HP][61 MP][92% SP]
You step back out of the range of a red dragon's jaws.

[62% HP][61 MP][92% SP]You begin to chant.
A red dragon's wing buffet deftly hits your chest.

[90% HP][61 MP][92% SP]Your critical wounds close and your pain ebbs away.

[90% HP][58 MP][92% SP]
A red dragon's wing buffet violently wing buffets your chest.

[88% HP][58 MP][92% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[84% HP][58 MP][91% SP]Your killmode is: stun.

[84% HP][58 MP][91% SP]
You attack a red dragon as he gets within your weapon's reach.
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!
A red dragon's claws stabs your chest.

[78% HP][58 MP][91% SP]
A red dragon's claws penetrates your head.

[77% HP][58 MP][91% SP]
A red dragon's bite perforates your left arm.

[74% HP][58 MP][91% SP]
With a bonecrunching sound a red dragon's wing buffet smashes your right arm.

[73% HP][58 MP][91% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[68% HP][58 MP][91% SP]
With a bonecrunching sound a red dragon's wing buffet deftly smashes your right arm.

[66% HP][58 MP][91% SP]
A red dragon ducks under your slashing attack.
a red dragon's fireshield burns you!

[63% HP][58 MP][91% SP]
You recoil as a red dragon exhales a horrible fireball at you, which you barely manage to twist away from!

[53% HP][58 MP][91% SP]Your killmode is: kill.

[53% HP][58 MP][91% SP]
You attack a red dragon as he gets within your weapon's reach.
With a sickening sound your slash deftly shreds a red dragon's wings.
A red dragon is DEAD!
After the dragon is dead, you cut off its head.
You also get its claw and collect some of its blood.

With a sickening sound Garumsh's pierce violently shreds Estrild's chest.
Estrild is stunned, but will probably recover.
Estrild's pierce penetrates Garumsh's chest.
With a sickening sound Estrild's pierce deeply perforates Garumsh's left leg.
Estrild's pierce shallowly penetrates Garumsh's chest.
Estrild dodges Garumsh's piercing attack.
Estrild's pierce deeply penetrates Garumsh's abdomen.
With a sickening sound Estrild's pierce violently shreds Garumsh's right leg.
With a sickening sound Estrild's pierce violently shreds Garumsh's right leg.
Estrild dodges Garumsh's piercing attack.
With a sickening sound Estrild's pierce perforates Garumsh's chest.
With a sickening sound Estrild's pierce violently shreds Garumsh's right leg.
Garumsh blinks.
Estrild dodges Garumsh's piercing attack.
With a sickening sound Estrild's pierce deeply perforates Garumsh's chest.
With a sickening sound Estrild's pierce deeply perforates Garumsh's right arm.
You raise an eyebrow.
With a sickening sound Estrild's pierce deeply perforates Garumsh's chest.
Estrild dodges Garumsh's piercing attack.
Estrild's pierce deeply penetrates Garumsh's abdomen.
Estrild's pierce deeply penetrates Garumsh's chest.

Estrild says, OOC, 'I had to go to nofight?'

Estrild got back up a few times and attacked again in this spar, much like was reported in Blade Barrier, until she went to nofight. We think it was the spell Fury that caused this. Can anyone look into this? Thanks

I can confirm that something is causing fights to continue after one of the PCs is stunned, but it isn't the fury spell. It seems to occur when both PCs are set to killmode stun, but I can't duplicate this one consistently. I ran at least 30 PvP fights and well over half of them involved additional rounds beyond when one PC was stunned. On a few occasions, the fight continued to as many as 15 rounds past the first time one PC was stunned. I've tried looking for patterns in the fights like who did damage in those extra rounds, who made and failed hits, amounts of damage dealt, etc. but there isn't any pattern I can see. Since I can't replicate this consistently, I don't have any definitive step to replicate, but setting two PCs with decent hit bonuses to killmode stun and having them fight seems to yield these results most of the time. I'll look into this more when I can, but this is all I know so far.

as far as I can tell, this happens when the PC manages to make another attack after being stunned - this happens because stun doesn't seem to disable the rest of a PC's actions for the round (like death does). Cases where this may happen is when a PC has an additional attack after being stunned (as shown in Estrild's log), and it will always happen in a wizard duel from the retaliation strike from an elemental shield.