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Hi just a thought, would it be possible to give folks with the track ability a way to track someone who is sneaking. As is have tested it several times and never had any sucess with doing so. Just seems weird to me. A ranger is classicaly known to also help small communities track down bandits and fugitives. These folks often rely on the sneakiness to elude escape. Just seems perhaps their could be a check involved like say ranger level and skill level against the rougues level and skill level in sneak. Hide i can see making sense for it not to work because they are not moving or leaving visble signs of passing. But with sneak they are and someone trained too look for signs such as these would be able to spot them. Anyways just a thought, and if was suggested before my apologies.

I have to completely agree. It doesn't make a lot of sense that you can cover your tracks simply by hiding behind a tree. Then again, the same could really go for invisible creatures. I can't count the number of movies I've seen where an invisible assailant was located by their footprints or the like.

Let's go it one better...

Allow someone to be tracked when invis/hidden, *unless* they're a ranger or druid of the appropriate level to have the "Trackless Step" ability, kind of like how thieves gain Evasion/Imp Evasion at a certain level.

I like the idea a lot. I have been chasing old thieves many times with ranger companions. Ketic and Telnier used to chase after Graham, or several other thieves on numerous occasions, and completly lose track of them because of the hide/sneak ability, and tracking not picking it up. It would seem more realistic for the foot prints to still be there. *shrug* just my two cents from a rangers stand point. I was thinking that maybe the ranger's and druids ability to cover thier tracks could fall under the skill of path finding. Since it is already in game, and it could implement the idea of the best chosen path to hide your tracks

I also would like to add;

A character can not be tracked if he is either flying or riding a flying mount (duh), on a water tile (footprints get washed away) and indoors (no footprints are left upon firm stone/pebbled room). I'm unsure about hill/mountain tile.

A character with the "trackless feature" can't be tracked, it also could be coded the spell "pass without trace" which would allow a character don't be tracked (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/passwithoutTrace.htm), it would like the feature (but temporal).

Upon failing the track skill, the character -might- actually follow a wrong track and get a direction that leads elsewhere from the npc, if the character is sneaking CAN be tracked but is harder to do (he is deliberaly walking slowly, on the other hand if he is running a riding a no-flying mount might be easier), also tracking races of small size (gnomes, halflings) is more difficult than races of medium size, and much more difficult than races of big size (or even bigger).

Finally, if the tracker steps into wherever is his prey, if the last one is hiding and the tracker "tracks him", he would get the same echo(s)* when he fails at the skill (there aren't any more tracks) but he could still perhaps see him if he succeeds in the spot check that seems to be implemented

*See third paragraph

See this is all being said in the context of ranger or druid versus thief etc. when it can easily be vice versa. Also just cause someone's on a flying mount doesn't mean they havent touched down or havent flown through some place that could leave a track. Although for the most part we all I think agree they are flying quite high. There are so many variables that cannot be coded in. But for the most part any sort of tracking a ranger can do a rogue can turn around and do unless they would have the said above skill trackless hoosits. The same could be argued someone trained in sneak/hiding is trained to spot such things but to also conceal so if you had a grandmaster at sneak he'd be a master of making his tracks go poof thus the skill checks etc... I just wanted to point out this isn't just something rangers/druids do. This is somethign rogues themselves can do and can also compensate for. We should think in a wider sense than just ranger druid what one plays, but what other plays and take into account what other classes get things like this.

Someone flying high should also be able to be seen from a distance, thus pursued in real time if not tracked after the fact. If it's within reason, something like "You see a flying figure in the distance, to the <general direction, say northwest>" would balance out not leaving tracks.

Technically, a river should only cover one's tracks if the trackee is smart enough to travel IN the river rather than simply across it; thus, moving >1 square in water would make more sense as a reason to lose tracking.

Raona wrote:Someone flying high should also be able to be seen from a distance, thus pursued in real time if not tracked after the fact. If it's within reason, something like "You see a flying figure in the distance, to the <general direction, say northwest>" would balance out not leaving tracks.

Technically, a river should only cover one's tracks if the trackee is smart enough to travel IN the river rather than simply across it; thus, moving >1 square in water would make more sense as a reason to lose tracking.

Not if they're invisible.

Raona wrote:Technically, a river should only cover one's tracks if the trackee is smart enough to travel IN the river rather than simply across it; thus, moving >1 square in water would make more sense as a reason to lose tracking.

By d20 rules, this just makes the track check more difficult, not impossible. Same goes for city streets, indoors, cavern floors, etc. They all get tossed into the same category.

SRD wrote:Hard Ground
Any surface that doesn't hold footprints at all, such as bare rock or an indoor floor. Most streambeds fall into this category, since any footprints left behind are obscured or washed away. The creature leaves only traces (scuff marks or displaced pebbles).

Perhaps it's not realistic to track someone through a river, but this is a fantasy setting.

You can already spot flying creatures when they're way up in the sky. You just have to use LOOK. Tracking flying creatures really shouldn't be possible unless you've got the Scent ability, but that only applies to very short ranges anyway. The same should probably go for swimming in sea tiles (the ones marked with a w instead of an r)

Of course, trying to get this skill to work like it does in Pen and Paper would probably be a coding nightmare. It shouldn't be too terribly difficult, however, to simply allow for tracking invisible and hidden creatures, put in the Trackless Step ability for druids and rangers of appropriate level (as well as Pass Without Trace like Vibius suggested), and implement opposed checks when tracking someone who's sneaking (so that a grandmaster in Sneak is a true challenge to successfully track). Normally, concealing one's tracks just makes the Track check a little harder (+5 to the DC), but opposed checks seem to be in these days and would better reflect the sneaky person's level of skill.

Trackless Step still allows one to leave a trail if they so desire, so one thought is to have it turned off unless the druid/ranger is sneaking. Buuuut if I understand correctly, druids don't get sneak. How about a config option?

Really, if we want to D&D-ize this completely, anyone should be able to move at speed: sneak, while they may not have the Sneak skill. in D&D, everyone can try to move quietly, they just don't have any ranks and get nothing but their DEX bonus and any item bonuses to succeed.

I do like the thought of track check vs. sneak check, since both in FK are skills. Abilities like Pass Without Trace and Trackless Step would just be a guaranteed proof against tracking

Track is unable to locate people in the dark. A halfelf (with light) is unable to find a tiefling (without) a light at night. But can find them once they hold a light.